Travelling during working day

[Dutchhouse14]

I usually work from home but we have a small office (that isn't big enough to house, all employees) that is my official working location.
Once a week I travel to another site( not my official working location) in the middle of my working day. Ie start work at home, go to this other location to compete a task that can only be done there, then drive back home and continue working.
Manager has just picked up on me using working time to travel to and from this location. She has asked me to log as finishing work on my spreadsheet when I leave home, then log time of arrival time at other location as restarting work then do the same back again.
I challenged this as
A) it's in middle of my working day and it's not a location I can work all day from
And
B) it's not my official working location so not a normal commute

HR policy is wooly and she's going to check with them but AIBU to challenge her on it?

You are not being unreasonable. You are travelling to a site that is not your work location to do a work task because work want you to - this is clearly work. I wfh and when I travel down to the office my travel time is considered work.

Is there no option to work from the other site?
How long is the travel?
What's in your job description?

I think it will end up coming down to what the time difference is between your normal place of work & this office.

If commuting to your usual office takes say 10 mins, and commuting to this other place takes 30 mins, then you should get 20 mins of it as working time. 30 - the 10 you would spend on your typical office commute. If they both take say 30 mins to get to though then I’d be surprised if this is working time.

This.

Either your office is your base, and they are asking you to travel to a different site, or you wfh and they are asking you to travel to another site.

Unless your contract specifically says that Monday you are based at site A and Tuesday you are based at site B, your time and mileage are work costs.

In Australia, I would log in to the tax office and put the question into their chat box.

In Australia, your employer would be earning bad ju-ju.

How far away is the other site? We are not allowed to claim for time under 30 minutes away as that is considered to be the same as normal commute time.

I had a role where I would sometimes have to visit other places at random times. Travel time was always counted as work time, I would have strongly challenged it if it wasn't.

That said, how much time are we talking? How does it compare to your normal commute?

It should be paid as working time and if you were to be on NMW could take you under that. It also counts as hours under the Working Time Directive.

Travel to and from your normal place of work does not count, neither does travel to your first client/place of work if you are peripatetic (at least for the moment according to the appeal court). In our company you would be paid a mileage allowance as well as your time.

Are you insured to travel to this site?

Honestly I'd find my team doing this disruptive. Unless there is no space for you that day then surely it would be sensible to spend a whole day in the office?

This is also what my employers policy is.
Deduct the travel time to your assigned office from the second office commute and claim the difference.

If it's essential that you go there and essential that its part way through the day they need to suck it up that it's a work activity, although it doesn't sounds great in terms of efficiency!

Oddly enough this was my first thought.

My insurance is for social, domestic and pleasure only.
So I couldn't use it to commute to or for work purpose without the addition of commuting or business insurance added.

YANBU

I would claim mileage and full time back for this, even if it wasn’t in the middle of the day.

In most policies nowadays, Domestic does normally include travel to and from work. It doesnt include travel FOR work.

@Comefromaway

You mention peripatetic teachers. Do you know if travel between sites (zero hour contract with three years service) should be paid? Or only teaching time.

So first site 30 mins away, 2 hours teaching,
second site 20 mins away 1.5 hours teaching,
third site 15 mins away 45mins teaching
then home 25 mins

Is that 4.25 hours paid work?

YANBU. Your manager might want to think about your points if you put them objectively and as you outline above.

This is incorrect, commute does not come under domestic as driving in rush hours increase the risk of accident.

Commute usually states a single place of work so does not cover site travel or off site courses.

I travel as part of my job, and the journey time is always included in my working hours, I also have to have business insurance for my car. If I travel to a site that is not my main office or go to a clients site I also claim Mileage.
i would expect your travel time to be included in your working hours hours unless they have changed contracts and this office building is also being classed as one of your main offices if you can only do the task there and it’s a task you do weekly as part of of your role

I work in an industry where we do travel between sites a lot. Basically the rule of thumb is that if you’re spending the day there or starting your day on site, you’re expected to get yourself there in the way you’d usually commute (within reason) and be there for your regular start time. If you’re travelling around from site to site during the day because of the requirements of your job then the travel time counts at work time, and you should expect to be there until the end of your working day, with your commute home being outside working hours (ie not leave to time your travel home so you arrive on your doorstep at 5.30) - again, within reason, providing you’re not visiting somewhere hours and hours away from your normal place of work.

Is your working from home a privilege that could be revoked, or is it your employer’s preference?

If the former, think carefully about rocking the boat…

It's clearly a work journey. You will need business insurance and should be claiming milage for the trip.

Just say that you will be unable to do that task anymore then. And when they tell you that it is essential for your job, then tell them that you need to be paid for it, as you are working.

No. I've just checked a lot of companies online and they all say that their basic domestic policy covers commuting to and from work. That includes AXA, the AA (and Zurich, just so you dont think I stopped at A!) etc. As long as you are not being paid to be in your car, you are covered. There may be exceptions, but they are rare.

We can't claim for the first or last journey of the day, unless it is further than it would be if we were going in to the office.

So, similarly to you, my 'usual' workplace is my spare bedroom, but, sometimes I go on a visit.
If that visit is further away than my office I can claim the difference but if it is the same, or closer, I have no claim.
If I did some work at home and then went to place A then place B, I can count the time (and mileage) between A and B, but not the time (nor miles) from home to A or from B to home.

This reply is genuinely for info not an 'I'm right' reply.

In my experience comparison websites are flawed and the only wording to go by is on the insurers policy.

The screenshot below is from the AA quote generator and clearly defines use
It explicitly says that Domestic does not include travel to work