Thread 13: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

The 12 Observer reports currently available online: The real Salt Path | The Observer

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement: Raynor Winn

Thread One ^www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?^

Threads 2-11: Links all in the OP of Thread 12

Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5384574-thread-12-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse welcome. It would be helpful to read at least some of the Observer items above before posting. There are currently 12 interesting items on The Observer website and linked to above.

To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Please do not engage with visitors who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for twelve very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Have the sales or thefts of fudge gone up recently?
Will Simon's head ever turn up?
Has the shed of doubt yet burst at the seams?
Will the old charabanc hold up as a tour bus for our hip new band The Drive-By Scolders?
And finally, how much salt can we possibly cram into a giant pinch?

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge be with you.

They must be very insecure individuals. Pair that with a family member saying they were both pathological liars, I think they are both looking for the emotional rush they get from people's responses to their stories. I think they want people to admire them, envy them, feel sorry for them, etc: "You are amazing!", "So courageous!". It must be very difficult for them now be getting so many negative responses. I think that is why she sticks to her story.

https://cornishstory.com/2023/11/18/mapping-methodism-fowey-wesleyan-chapel/
I think the flat in Pelruan is to the left of this former Chapel.

All good sleuthing! But is it enough for Dr Google to have scared them witless? Yes, I too have been scared witless by Dr Google but this is SW writing a memoir - she couldn't realistically have forgotten it was very mild, atypical and indolent- not when it came to putting it down in ink, surely? Surely she would have said something along the lines of " I feel terrified but must remember the neurologist said very mild, indolent, atypical".

Why is the part about University in the doctor's letter at all especially starting with
"I confirmed that I have absolutely no objection..." ?

Are they just generally talking about future plans, or is there possibly some sort of government funded scheme beyond a normal student loan to support people who have to do re-training because of health issues that make them unable to work in their original job? And Tim needs a doctor's confirmation that
A) he does have a disease limiting his physical abilities
B) he is still fit enough to complete a university course?

(and maybe that was even the plan from 2009 on when he first turned up at the pain clinic as a 49 year old gardener/plasterer fed up with hard physical work and wanting bigger things anyway?)

That's what I've raised previously but somebody said Disabled Students' Allowance is for associated expenses, not a lump payment.

But I do have similar speculative thoughts re: 2009. They were in a financial pickle afterall.

If they took these extensive breaks from walking (staying in Polruan, etc), then how the hell were either of them fit enough to continue with a long walk? In my recollection, these walks are tough and require you to have done a fair bit of walking before you set out. I can just about imagine them considering themselves fit enough when they set out to start with (although exactly how much walking was done in one fell swoop is under debate anyway), but having holed up somewhere over 'winter' (or a considerable number of months including winter), how were they keeping fit enough to carry on walking? If they actually did...

I agree. I think it is also a way to prevent people from looking too closely and asking the difficult questions, whether that be interviewers, journalists, readers or people like Bill Coles who wanted to know why his cider farm wasn't being properly looked after. Afterall who would doubt or accuse an imminently dying man and his bereft wife of anything at all untoward, let alone the genuineness of their terminal claims?

Thank you, yes, I got out and I'm on the mend, leg still painful and being dressed daily but very, very lucky as sepsis can cause more permanent damage. It's a weird one because as you become more ill, you aren't really processing properly (or thinking straight) and in retrospect I should have been in hospital earlier.

I think it's more that they're the kind of people for whom there's only ever one side of any story, theirs -- and that other people's clashing or competing narratives must be aggressively fended off and exploded, because The Truth Is Theirs. Meaning other people are, always, just plain wrong, whether they're Chloe Hajimatheou or the Treen campsite manager or the person who wouldn't refill their waterbottles.

I think we've all met these people in the flesh. They also show up a lot on Mn on AIBU, looking for validation, often in high dudgeon about some perceived slight or another person who has made it clear that they regarded the OP as being in the wrong over some issue of parking, or hedge height, or managing toddler behaviour on a slide. It's why AIBU is so perversely fascinating, because these people genuinely believe themselves wronged, and are incredulous there might be some other position.

The Walkers probably genuinely think the uncle who lent SW the money to repay the Hemmingses 'betrayed' them by securing the debt against their house, or selling on the debt, or even by expecting them to repay it in the first place, because, hey, he had way more money, and it wasn't fair, anyway. Mistakes Were Made.

I think the outrage in the representation of the 'Cooper' courtcase is probably entirely authentic, even if the circumstances are fictional.

SW goes to a lot of trouble to position Raynor and Tim as the authentic, brave 'little people', free spirits sticking it to the man, whether that's by sneaking into campsites, or bravely defending themselves in court, or being snide about people who get to eat a plate of food each in a cafe, sleep in a B and B in bad weather, and get highlights.

In the most neutral situation, including meeting some friendly fellow backpackers in a nice cafe, she will find a way to create a power imbalance, positioning the Walkers as the lovable underdogs.

At Fat Apples (probably because, if we believe the Parsons' timeline, it's 2015, the Walkers are no longer even notionally homeless and are in much the same position as the Australians, walking for leisure) they pay to camp in the FA wood campsite and buy themselves 'a vast plate of vegetarian joy' in the cafe. SW then needs to find a way of not letting the reader think 'How luxurious', so she makes the Australians into figures of luxury, with two breakfasts, a budget for hotels in bad weather, and highlights that need maintaining. Compared to this, the Walkers' fiver for a campsite and a shared plate of food is small beer, and she draws attention to their continual hunger and her crappy, thin sleeping bag.

And this bit struck me:

It was hard to leave the sanctuary of the Fat Apples; I could have spent the winter in their wood, using the cold tap in their outside toilet, but we probably wouldn’t have been good for business.

She implies that she knows, magically, if she'd asked for them to stay on, the FA people would have refused because they don't want a scruffy, homeless couple camping in their wood and using their outside tap. So although no one at FA has ever suggested for a moment they were unwelcome, or refused them water, cold or hot, or charged more than a very reasonable £5 for a night's camping, SW manages to turn this into a (fictional) rejection on financial grounds. A nicer campsite, she seems to imply, would have begged them to stay all winter, regardless of 'business'.

I have no problem believing that she now thinks they've been unfairly smeared by Big Journalism.

Yes.. and add agents & publishers to the list.

Many if not all universities offer some financial support in a lump sum grant for students who, for example, are estranged from both parents, care leavers, or have a disability, illness or mental health condition. This is separate to the DSA. Amounts vary but are generally in the region of £1-2k for each year of study.

RW tells us in TSP that they are in receipt of a small amount of Tax Credits. What we don't know is if TW received DLA/PIP then or has since. Obviously if he is genuinely entitled to it then he should receive it.

ADVANCE DRIVE-BY SCOLDING ALERT 🚩
Please avoid these points leading into general negative comments about disabled people or disability benefits. We firmly agreed back in the mists of time that this would definitely not be in the spirit of these threads. Many thanks.

I agree - I think she will be feeling victimised and bullied.

I think she truly believes in her fake story because of her 'feelings' and wonders why people are getting caught up in silly details like dates, diagnosis and embezzlement.

I wonder if the course that TW was signed up to was at all physically strenuous? If so, maybe the uni wanted confirmation that he was medically fit to undertake it, hence the wording of the doctor's letter.

Or it could just be, as I've previously commented, that this consultant has a very "clunky" writing style, and simply meant that he reassured the Walkers that TW was good to go!

Re Australian couple maybe I imagined this and I’ve given my copy of the salt path away, but didnt SalRay admit they later walked other end of the path the other way (in contrast to the beginning of the book when Moth won’t walk the other way as no guidebook)? Or is it the year that doesn’t match up?

Yes, I was so impressed, I Googled the word, and the only match was this thread!!! 😀

I agree too. I suspect someone capable of the embezzlement in the first place, who is then comfortable to sell books, make guest appearances and sell film rights on the basis that she is innocent, is too far entrenched in the victim mentality to ever accept responsibility.

Could there be any kind of medical insurance or liability element here, so that Raymoth can show TW wasn't acting against medical advice? I wondered this about the 2025 consultant's letter, whether the charity or film company's insurers had asked for anything.

Yes, the book does say they walked the other way in 2014 from Poole to Polruan to complete the walk after staying at Polly's for 9 months.

But also in the book they begin walking from Minehead to finish up in Polruan in 2013 before Polly's and this stretch included the Fat Apples encounter with the Australians.

The reality is they were walking the other way in 2015 when they met the Australians at Fat Apples.

Haye Farm Timeline and some background

1994 – Magazine article about cider, interviews previous owner who’s uncle and grandfather had run the farm previously. “His trees have never been pruned, he does not spray, and many have canker. He just keeps the ground beneath them clean.” They also have 200 breeding ewes and 70 bullocks.

2011 – Bill Cole buys Farm. Highlights of Zoopla webpage: “approximately 117 acres of productive land and a four bedroom farmhouse ….comprises three separate reception rooms of good size, a modern well fitted kitchen, a large rear extension with cider/utility room, boot room and cloakroom. At first floor level there are four bedrooms, a useful box room and a family bathroom.” Goes on to mention the orchards.

2015 and 2017 – mentions in local community magazines about people arranging visits to see the cider making.

2018 – Bill Cole contacts WinnWalkers after reading TSP. They visit the farm when “The scorched earth spread along a broad ridge, grass grazed to soil height by cattle and sheep in every field.” He asks them to “Manage my vision for the place: a biodiverse farm that still keeps a few sheep and makes cider, but puts the environment first.” (TWS)

Winter 2018 – tenancy agreement signed. WinnWalkers start work on the house. (TWS)

2019 January – Leave the Polruan home and move to Cider farm. (TWS)

Early spring 2019 – Moth says ‘Do you remember how much equipment and livestock it took to farm a place this size?’ and ‘I think we’re going to have to talk to Sam about finding someone to use the grass. We can focus on resurrecting the orchards, making cider and overseeing a biodiversity plan for the farm, but I can’t see us being able to actually physically farm the whole place ourselves.’ (TWS)

7th March 2019 – Land at the farm sold (Gov.uk Land Registry).

August 2019 – Walk in Iceland with Dave and Julie. ( “Not as weird as getting on the plane in an August heatwave and getting off into early winter.” And “We put our rucksacks in the hold of the bus with only five full days of August left.” (start of bus journey to Landmannalaugar) (TWS)

Then @Furryhappykittens covers the rest 😊 Apart from April 2024 Instagram on hayefarmcider: “We feel unbelievably lucky to be custodians of Haye Farm. Everything that we do here, from managing the orchards without chemicals, using sheep instead of mowers, harvesting apples by hand, wild fermenting, keeping energy inputs to an absolute minimum, processing and reusing waste products (pomace & prunings) and protecting, preserving and planting traditional orchards (which are incredible for wildlife, biodiversity, carbon sequestration and soil health) is done with the Earth and its health in mind!”

1. From Spring 2019 - I wonder what farming on that scale that they have done and are referring to?
2. Since the land sale is registered 7th March, I’m fairly sure that the WinnWalkers would have known about it at the signing of the Tenancy Agreement 4(ish) months previously. Which makes the conversation dated early spring meaningless, but does match with SamBill’s quote about managing the farm. The cost of the land on Land Registry is approx. £500,000 so it was probably most of the land apart from the house and orchards?
3. As a farmer’s son, I would have thought that BillSam would know how quickly things grow back as long as they are given the winter to do so and having no grazing animals on them. “And I didn’t think the change would be so quick, I thought it could be years before we saw the land come back to life” (TWS)
4. Why do you go away to Iceland in Aug/sept when you are meant to be looking after a cider orchard, surely you should be prepping equipment and collecting the apples that ripen early.
5. Apart from clearing rubbish and the work inside the house, there seems very little comment on SW doing any physical work on the farm.
6. (Disclaimer, I have not read Landlines) The only work that seems to be mentioned is getting rid of rubbish, strimming back brambles, nettles etc (not digging out) and pruning trees. IE No rewilding.

In the February 2025 letter to TW's GP, is this the consultant covering his back if (emphasis on the if) he also reviewed the book and realises that the film will bring increased attention and possibly scrutiny? Or is he starting to have his own doubts and wants to have it in writing that he has, more or less, cautioned them? The appointment is by video not in person. The clinical course is described as 'extremely indolent' and 'so atypical'.

I was keen to acknowledge in our discussion that his clinical story has been unique and I know he and his wife has (sic) been engaged in highly commendable exercise in improving awareness of CBD and CBS. I was very pleased to hear from them that whenever they discuss with others or in public they emphasise benefit of activities, without indicating the clinical outcome will be as favourable has (sic) been the case for Mr Walker himself.

Re. your point 1, @RainyTuesdaysAndSunnyWednesdays -- I think I assumed, probably like many people, when I first read TWS, that the Walkers had in fact been 'proper' farmers in Wales, with commercial herds of sheep or cattle and/or crops, so that in this conversation about the cider farm, they were drawing on their own experience of farming.

When it became very clear, from Mn threads, that they'd only had about an acre of land, and their only livestock seem to have been a few semi-pet sheep and hens, I did wonder. I mean, is SW simply lying when she represents Tim as apparently knowing about farming, and 'remembering' the amount of work and machinery it would take to stock and work a 117-acre farm? Or gifting him with her own childhood memories of being a herdsman's child living on a farm.

But all that discussion about whether they were going to actually work the farm, or just do a bit of rewilding and run the orchards would have taken place before they signed the tenancy agreement, anyway. And it's clearly pure fiction if Bill Cole in fact sold off the majority of the land around the time they moved into the farmhouse, anyway. So they never rewilded the farm as a whole, because that was now someone else's land. At most, they did a bit of clearing of whatever acreage was left, which must have been mostly the orchard.

They were never the 'restorative agriculture' saviours of the farm, and that weird visit in which Bill Cole is depicted as roaring up on his motorcycle, weeping with happiness at how much they'd achieved in so short a time, must be pure fiction. Or he was crying, not with joy, but because he was sad he'd had to sell the land he had seemed to have such an attachment to, and this felt like a moment of defeat, as he recognised he was never going to live there and farm it?

So why not just say 'we signed a tenancy agreement to live in the farmhouse and manage the orchard'?

Here’s an archive link to the article: https://archive.ph/Bvd4t. Sorry if someone Kes has already posted the archive link though - just catching up, so your post is the last I’ve read.

The OED ‘first citation’ awaits!!😀

Never mind that, it will be included in our threadisms for ever more.

True. My priorities are completely off. We are a vibrant linguistic subculture with our own coinages and idiolect, as well as literary sleuths!