Has behaviour of kids got worse or is it just harmless?

[Ihatemyneighb]

Genuinely interested what are your thoughts? I’m quite strict with my kids and I nip any bad behaviour straight away. My issue is I see neighbourhood kids just getting away with lots of things and just being left unsupervised at times. Just for context we live in a well thought of middle class area where there’s many professional people. We previously lived in a considered poor and disadvantaged area but my own experience was that the parents seemed to keep the kids in check and I didn’t see any kids bothering anyone. I feel the area now parents and kids seem to be very entitled! Anyone else experience this?

in the 1960s many kids were ignored, no TVs, but left to play while mother did the housework

I find commentary about the general state of things being much worse than x time bizarre, it’s like people have no memory. 30 years ago it was totally normal to play chicken with cars in the road, do knock and run on neighbours and roam the streets below 10 years old, whereas that literally never happens in my neighbourhood (the same neighbourhood I grew up in) now. This random group of kids near you isn’t a ‘state of the nation’ but would have been super common 30 years ago and 60 years ago all kids were probably kicked out onto the streets all day during the holidays!

There are only 4 houses in my part of the street with waste ground opposite so I'm quite isolated. I talk to some of the local people but generally not about anything like this so they dont really know the extent of the problem.They have their own lives and wouldn't want to get involved. One lady near by is older than me and also lives alone and she certainly sympathises but she's been a target herself at times and certainly doesnt want to draw attention onto herself.

I'm just hoping for a big win with my premium bonds- I dont do the lottery- and then I will happily walk away !

I certainly agree with you about children roaming the streets being a big problem because I think that a lot of the parents have absolutely no idea of how they actually behave when they are out together.

true, rose tinted glasses had children playing on building sites, and these are now shut off because they were actually really dangerous

DS(10) comes home from school and tells us what various kids have said to either the teachers or other kids and the rudeness and disrespect is eye watering. I have no idea if parents are contacted after some of these incidents but I’d be horrified if I got a call from the school, but I ask where are these children learning to behave like this in the first place?

My late friend has two teen boys and when they were younger teen-aged she would not allow them to go into town to just hang around with friends; if they were doing something specific like the cinema and food or basketball in the park etc then she was fine with it, but she was adamant that bored and idle teens gathering in the town centre can potentially make a nuisance and maybe start getting into trouble. She had an open door for her DS’ friends to come to their house, and encouraged them to do sports clubs etc to keep them busy. We’re not at that teen age yet so I don’t know if her thoughts were founded, but I’m possibly inclined to agree from what I see in town sometimes.

Yes, I work in a public facing role, to be fair most kids / teens are fine but there’s a minority that couldn’t care less about anything other than themselves, they steal, do drink, drugs, threaten staff and just cause trouble for everyone . Police can’t be bothered about it

mind you a lot of adults are me me me and it’s got worse since Covid, the way some people treat and talk to others is despicable

There are a number of alarm bells ringing- please report your concerns. Those that are saying it's a safe community are being really nieve.

In answer to your question I don't know that it's got any worse - but we know more about it.

However, it makes me think of my Mum's observations when she worked with schools - in affluent areas little Johnny's parents would never believe he had done what he had been accused of (and what he most certainly had done). Whereas, in deprived areas parents often have such a lot of pressing issues to deal with that they struggle with the head space to parent (and if this is generational do they have the knowledge and skills to parent effectively).

Yes, of course it's got worse. I don't have any kids around me and am genuinely happy about it.

But that sounds more like how it used to be rather than how it is now - we did used to wander and cycle to the park and shops far younger and take smaller siblings with us (though never 3)

so it is more the reverse isn’t it that the parenting is like it used to be when there were less cars on the roads etc? My Dad got run over at 5 walking home by himself from school.

Truthfully though I think there is an underlying issue of you wanting and needing to protect your children. At a certain age that isn’t your role it is instead to give them the tools to protect themselves.

Given those who see it or see it as a you issue (and frankly it could be either or a mix of both) I suspect your anxiety here might be the issue

Rudeness is much, much worse. Actual behaviour maybe not. My parents are in their early 80s and don’t of their tales of accepted behaviour, roaming around, exploring building sites is much worse. However anti social verbal abuse and refusing to follow instructions in school for example, has got much worse.

It depends how far back you're going for a comparison. Because I think that progressively in the decades I've been around (I'm 56) there has been a move towards children being more visible, more assertive, less frightened by authority figures (parents, teachers, other adults) which has resulted in more overt and noticeable forms of challenging behaviour. Rather than sit quietly in public, children run about making noise. Rather than do as they're told on pain of punishment they will challenge and argue with adults. There are pros and cons to this. It's a major plus that far fewer children are managed through fear and are silenced, disrespected and have no account taken of their needs. However the downside is they're more likely to create inconvenience to people.

Poor behaviour linked to social and emotional needs has gone through the roof in schools so I do think there is something going on with parenting.

And I say parenting rather than screens or societal attitudes because ultimately parents are responsible. So I think the litmus test shows that a lot of adults and families are struggling and it manifests in their kids when they’re put under any kind of pressure, in a classroom for example.

In public however, I actually think kids are ok. I live in deprived area and near a secondary school and we get very few problems. I remember graffiti, anti social behaviour and destruction being far worse in the 80s/90s. I happened to have a brief exchange with one or two of the young people when I was passing and school was kicking out one day and they were lovely.

Kids are just a product of their environment at the end of the day. The problem, if there is one, is the parents.

We used to wonder around but if someone told our parents we had been a nuisance our parents believed the other adult

now parents will tell the other adult to fuck off

so if you have those parents bringing up kids letting them roam free is a different ball game

And it’s nothing to do with class

there are decent and dreadful parents and kids across all social classes

living in a middle class area does not give immunity to any of this nowadays it basically just means that more people can afford bigger cars and nicer holidays

perhaps it’s something to do with parents insisting on keeping up a full hobby and exercise regime? My parents didn’t disappear for hours self improving when I was young

It’s not just the behaviour impacting adults I’m worried about it’s the fact these kids could be doing anything to each other and no one is around keeping an eye on them. As I said it’s peer on peer abuse. Lots of cases of older kids acting out things on younger ones. I think this is a risk that parents are not aware of or choose to ignore. Kids much younger than you would imagine are watching things and wanting to act them out. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Shouldn’t at least one adult of the kids keep an eye on them and check on them periodically? There seems to be the routine of them being out all day with no supervision

My own kids do and say things that I wouldn’t have dreamed of when I was a chikd (60/70s), and my parents were not particularly strict nor am I lax. I think society has become more child-centric and their ‘needs’ are paramount and maybe this has led to a certain amount of entitlement? Plus of course most things are instantly available- we had to physically go out to a shop to buy stuff, now Amazon will have it delivered next day, TV is 24/7 with a huge variety- no waiting a week for the next installment with little choice. Even I look at things now and get impatient if the pace is not rapid fire, that someone doesn’t t respond to a text/email, when in my youth it was a letter so a couple weeks!
This all feeds into instant gratification and not having any patience.
And because of this it’s not just kids, but adults are definitely worse behaved these days too.

That's awful.

Where I grew up kids behaviour was pretty bad in the 80s and 90s. Think joy riding, setting fires, playing chicken. Still pretty young kids too. I don't think bad behaviour was new. It was working class area with social problems though, so maybe it is middle class parenting that has deteriorated more in recent times. I think drugs are a bit more accessible to much younger kids now though and you didn't get kids dealing them either.

Poor behaviour linked to social and emotional needs has gone through the roof in schools so I do think there is something going on with parenting.
This will be unpopular, but actually I think a lot of the internal school issues are to do with schools themselves. Educational requirements have changed and increased from when we were younger, while some schools buy into having no effective discipline especially for children with additional needs. We moved DS out of a school that had sounded all lovely and free range (where he was being whacked daily and described utter chaos in the classroom with constant noise from multiple shouting children and loud TAs, where sitting to learn was optional) to a school with firm discipline. No noticeable difference in the "type" of kids nor parents outside school, still some kids with noticeable ND traits etc - yet no hitting (discipline is quick and kind but firm), calm classroom, he's happy and learning, TAs primarily give 1-1 support outside the class to not disturb the majority. The curriculum is still daft, but school can't do much about that and do incorporate a lot of play.

There have always been kids that behave badly, and many parents these days can definitely improve. But at the very least SOME schools really do need to consider their own practices.

I seriously think you're projecting. Unless you're seeing specific things are concerning, in which case do something about it, use your safeguarding training.
And how do you know other adults aren't checking on them or watching from windows? You can't possibly be watching other people's kids constantly while yours are inside can you?
Children should be able to play freely on quiet roads (again, I'm assuming cul de sac) with siblings and neighbors. People pay a huge premium for these houses for exactly that reason.

I would quite like to move house from my urban spot to somewhere more spacious but what puts me off is the prospect of families living nearby because I know how horrible kids are. This was my experience growing up in a middle class suburb in the 80s/90s though. If my husband dies before me I don't want to be a widow surrounded by teens.

Someone I know who is an TA has suggested it’s the parents that tend to be worse than the children , so maybe this feeds their entitlement and some bad behavior then they feel they can do what they like?
I admit that I will cross the road to avoid many teens in my area. They whizz around on bikes without a care who is on the pavement or roads , are loud and cause havoc in the local parks and shops.
I know people say ‘ we were the same’ too but I know that I wasn’t as my parents kept an eye on us and the neighbours wouldn’t put up with it on my council estate whete I lived, you’d be told off. I know I wouldn’t confront any bad behavior. Maybe this is where it’s gone wrong and there is rarely a police presence for the real bad things that go on.
Our local police station that was there for years is being turned into flats.

I left childcare in 2018, started in the 80s

Just couldn't cope with lack of discipline in early years care

I feel for you

However yesterday we were walking our dog in local forest park, moved to one side (twice) to let cyclists by. Both children said thank you but adults didn't.
So not all bad

Definitely worse. Children playing out is not necessarily an issue but they are no longer expected to consider the feelings of other people. Possibly partly an issue of less green space to play in but also much more tolerance of thoughtless inconsiderate behaviour. Also the idea that no-one else must tell off a child when adults used to feel it a duty to do so and the parents would have been critical of their child needing to be told off rather than the adult doing so.