Dd earning £6 an hour cash in hand for a Saturday/holiday job

[wildfellhall]

in a hairdresser just doing very basic things, making drinks, sweeping up, general cleaning and answering the phone.

obviously it’s less than minimum wage but she is learning the basics of work.

Some of my family are a bit disapproving - but I feel as if it’s still good experience particularly as she wants to carry on.

AIBU to let her continue until she finds something better?

I honestly can't believe some people are finding this acceptable. It is worlds away from an informal little baby sitting job for a neighbour, or looking after your cousin's pet.

This hairdresser will have other people paid for on the books. OP's daughter should be too. She is being exploited, and it is all very well saying it is "experience" for her, but they are taking the piss and will keep doing it.

It is not ok.

Not sure if this has been asked and I have missed it. But, is this a proper job, as in she has left school and this is what she does all the time. Or is this just a Saturday job or something during the holidays.

If the latter I really wouldn't worry too much. She is earning some money and getting work experience. All good.

If she has left full time education and this is her actual full time job I think I would be more uneasy.

Edited to say, I have just seen from thread title that this is a Saturday and holiday job. In which case I really wouldn't be concerned.

No, it’s not ok. If you employ someone, you need to pay them a proper wage. The minimum wage is already low in the U.K. and yet so many businesses are trying to exploit their employees even more.

Why not keep doing it until she gets another job? Some money and experience is better than none.

Assuming it is a Saturday job as described.

I wouldn't be happy about it. She isn't earning enough to pay tax or NI but the employer should definitely be doing everything legally and it sounds as they are are not.. They are also breaking the law because they are paying well below the minimum wage for a 16 year old.
They are exploiting her.

Maybe let her do it until she finds something else

Yes. Let her do it. Years ago, we all did this. It’s good experience and brings in a work ethic.

I'm sorry but I don't see how being exploited and not standing up for your rights can be great experience. Or how it could help her get another job. A legitimate legal employer wouldn't be particularly impressed by her experience working for someone illegally. She isn't getting particularly useful experience. And i doubt the hairdresser would provide a reference anyway given as legally they haven't employed her.

New employers won’t know she’s working illegally so I wouldn’t worry about that! It’s not like she’s going to tell them!

I think she should keep doing it for now, while trying to secure a proper job, perhaps in another hairdressers!

Is it experience of child exploitation or tax fraud you're most hoping she picks up from this job? Which is she hoping to specialise in/study after school?

Is it really just work experience (which people do for free) or is it a proper job?
As for the cash in hand thing...well she's not going to be paying tax anyway as she's hardly earning. Seems like place is giving her work experience and giving her a little pocket money to say thanks.

She will be insured providing they have public liability - which would cover customers as well. You can do unpaid work experience and still be covered by insurance.

Of course she can put it down on her CV, and a legitimate employer would judge the business not a 16 year old that is just trying to work.

I don't agree with NMW for 16 year olds as it stops businesses giving a kid a chance. I would encourage her to keep looking for something else, but I wouldn't stop her .

How do people know that the salon does not have ELI?
She needs a contract and NMW for her age though.

Take a look at yourself.

If my DD wanted to do this job at 16 I'd let her. It's a start in gaining work experience and will help her get a better job as she'll have something to write about on a CV/job application.

You don’t have to pay NIC to get credit, if you earn above the lower earnings limit of £125 per week (ish) then NICs are treated as paid even though you don’t actually pay anything.

Work experience for teenagers is like gold dust around here so I'd let her crack on. I was a Saturday girl at that age, and worked shifts washing up at a pub and in a cafe! There was tons of work, all cash. That was only 15 years ago so not the dark ages. What she will learn about timeliness, how to behave in a workplace, how to speak to customers and her employer, how to solve minor problems etc is worth so much more than £1.50 an hour in the long run.

I think the word “exploit” is laying it on a bit thick.

DD gets cash, and actual work experience- these are not to be sniffed at. And gets to have the owner over a barrel with the authorities.

so yeah, 16 year old at home getting paid not much. No big deal, especially when she can leave at any time, and it will make finding something better very easy for her.

What if the salon owner isn’t actually an “employer” and instead has self employed contractors who pay for the chair.

To me £6 an hour at 16 would have been great! But minimum wage was £5 when I was 16 😅

If she’s enjoying it let her crack on.

I'd let her stay tbh, it's so hard for teenagers to get jobs now. Make sure she's not doing anything dangerous like mixing chemicals, but otherwise a few months there will look great on her CV and likely lead to a proper job.

I know the legalities were very different in the 90s, but my first jobs were cash in hands (waitressing and shop work) and were invaluable in just learning how the world works, seeing older colleagues and how they behaved, how to deal with management, how to deal with customers - I think the experience is well worth it, so long as she didn't get stuck there.

Not that I think the OP or her daughter will care much about NIC credits but where are
you getting this advice that you actually have to pay NIC to get the credits?

You start paying NIC at the weekly/monthly equivalent of £12,570 per annum and get the credits from £6,500 per annum.

In summary, you DO get the credits for not paying NI.

Agree. This is not acceptable. She is doing a job so she should be paid the minimum at tbe very least.

Is she just being paid cash and it going through the books properly or is it that she isn't being declared as a worker?
I remember being paid cash as a teen but this was done properly with national insurance being deducted.
It sounds a bit dodgy to me.

This thread highlights the increasing split in society into two camps, one of which is overly represented in MN. The increasingly risk averse, we must follow the rules, but it’s illegal!, I’m entitled to this that and the other camp. And the get on with it, make things happen for yourself, if you want to get what you want sometimes you have to bend the rules and push boundaries camp. I know which group I’d rather be in.