Civil Service internship. Only children of the "working class"

[Quirkswork]

If your child is coming up for 14 and interested in a career in the Civil Service and you have a job in a profession or that means you pay a lot of tax, I suggest you down tools now.

As reported in the Telegraph,

Civil Service internships will only be offered to students from lower income families in a bid to make Whitehall more working class, ministers have announced.

Only young people from “lower socio-economic backgrounds” will be able to apply to Whitehall’s internship programme, the Cabinet Office has said.

A student will be judged eligible depending on what jobs their parents did when they were 14. Students with parents who are receptionists, electricians, plumbers, butchers or van drivers would be among those eligible for the programme.

Why do you think children attending Teeside High School - a private school in Stockton on Tees where 15.6% A level grades are A or Astar - have more advantages than those attending Tiffin School for Boys in London where 70% get A or Astar and have all the benefits of the resources, contacts and access of living in London?

As someone who works for the civil service I can confirm that you have a normal application process which is blind, and you still have to show your skills and experience. I imagine all this does is give people something to talk about in their application. It’s just showing people what it’s like. I started my job after 10 years in the private sector. I needed a job and it was close to where I live.

What evidence is there that children from private schools are more deserving of the positions they have than children without their advantage? Intelligence and ability is found in all demographics, its not the preserve of the wealthy.

Just as an example:
King's College School, Wimbledon :: Independent Schools Inspectorate

Nationally standardised test data provided by the school indicate that the ability of the pupils is well above average and most are in the national top five percent academically.

St Paul's School - Educational Quality 2017
Nationally standardised data used in the seniorschool indicate that the ability of the pupils is well above average. The junior school does not use standardised tests. Its own assessments indicate that the ability of pupils is also well above average. Most pupils are in the top 10 per cent nationally and half are in the top 3 per cent.

The civil service doesn’t just employ in London( 80% is outside of London) and the privately educated are massively over represented in the CS outside of London too. Not sure many from London will be flocking in their droves up to Teesside so the privately educated in the area hoover up the jobs instead.

They don’t have the normal application process - they are fast-tracked through the initial stages of screening for the civil service fast stream.

I disagree. The MC is not comprised of the WC done good. Many MC people are considered so because they have the trappings associated with it due to being born into a MC family. There are people considered MC who are not very bright at all. There are people considered MC who have no profession, but take their class from the occupation of their parents or partner. Similarly there are highly intelligent WC people who's life chances prevented them from moving into professions. There are also WC people in professions who feel their social class is not defined by their job but by their background, family and life experiences.

So you are saying they have an advantage because no one from London would want to work in that area? Why do you think that would be? Why do you think students from there would not want to work in London?

Think for 20 secs. If the biggest indicator is parental employment there must be some sort of link.

That doesn’t say she was banned from employing white men. Just that there were diversity targets.

Maybe this highlights the fact that the private school model works and that the state needs to copy the bits that work in the private model to level everybody up. But they can’t be bothered to do that because it cost too much, they can’t even be bothered to follow through with their 6500 extra teachers. All they’ve done is a token gestures of “free” breakfast club. 😬

Which doesn’t say she was banned from employing white men.

Look, I can’t speak for you but I know from my own experience that having been to uni and worked in a professional environment, I know how to present myself and position myself, when to take a risk and when to stay put. Over time I’ve gained the confidence to talk to senior people in the right language.

It took me years to learn this knowledge but the fact that I can pass this to my own DC is going to give them an advantage and make their career journeys hopefully a bit easier.

Hopefully they wont spend the first few years of their career sitting like a scared little mouse, like I did or feeling that certain jobs/opportunities were not for them but for people who are slicker, more at ease etc.

That is what I mean by the advantage of being middle class/professional or whatever you want to call it.

This is the aim of the scheme. Middle classes don’t seem to have a problem getting selected for fast track or other entry. This will help a few different people do that, therefore bringing success at actual employment stage a bit closer to equality.

I don’t disagree about that but I was responding specifically to comments that middle class people have a network of contacts and everyone gets their children jobs easily because of this.

Good.

Careful, people will call you a Marxist if you believe there are only 2 classes.

Middle classes do very much have problems. It’s the privately educated who dominate. Lower middle classes and above are not privately educated only 7% of the country is. Intermediate jobs are hugely under represented in the CS as the charts show.

As a parent of a child who is interested in the Civil Service but wouldn’t be eligible for this I say this is completely fair. She has met friends of mine who are senior civil servants and I introduced her to a former colleague who began her career in the Fast Stream who has given her lots of good tips. It’s absolutely right that young people without the benefit of that network can access the opportunities that an internship like this gives them. She is privileged and appreciates that an accident of birth means she has advantages others don’t.

It’s not about access to the Fast Stream except in that it allows a bit of diversity. They won’t fill the Fast Stream with these 200 young people some of whom won’t show aptitude or will decide it’s not for them anyway. You are still able to access it.

They can however we’re talking about the CS of which 80% is outside of London and it’s massively over represented by the privately educated everywhere.Shockingly so and needs to stop. This measure will not do anything to rectify it and will just make it harder for the already struggling lower middle classes.

Ok so screw the many others without networks and not privileged like your daughter.

This also raises another point - I grew up in a small provincial town. Of my MC peers I can only think of one person who stayed in that town. The others are in South Coast, several in London, Sheffield, Manchester, Coventry, Scotland, The Netherlands, Australia…. And the next generation is flying the nest in a similar fashion. In contrast nearly all my WC peers have stayed in that town or within ten miles of it. In terms of networks my WC have much stronger networks as they have generations to build them. It is pretty common for them to have got employment through those contacts.

I genuinely think you could abolish private schools and those same children will get the exact same jobs. They are in The top % of academic ability and so will get the same academic results. They will have exactly the same home life and the exact same home help from the parents. If anything more of these children will be able to get the plum roles as how will employers be able to differentiate backgrounds other than this weird (and crude) what you parent did when you were 14.

👏👏

My children won't be able to benefit from this scheme. I still think it's a brilliant idea.

My children already have advantages based on us not falling into the demographic that this scheme will help. Why wouldn't I want children from lower socioeconomic backgrounds to be given opportunities that help level the playing field?

I think the only parents who would have a problem with this kind of scheme are either ridiculously selfish, or are worried that their children aren't good enough to succeed on a fairer playing field.