Civil Service internship. Only children of the "working class"

[Quirkswork]

If your child is coming up for 14 and interested in a career in the Civil Service and you have a job in a profession or that means you pay a lot of tax, I suggest you down tools now.

As reported in the Telegraph,

Civil Service internships will only be offered to students from lower income families in a bid to make Whitehall more working class, ministers have announced.

Only young people from “lower socio-economic backgrounds” will be able to apply to Whitehall’s internship programme, the Cabinet Office has said.

A student will be judged eligible depending on what jobs their parents did when they were 14. Students with parents who are receptionists, electricians, plumbers, butchers or van drivers would be among those eligible for the programme.

No. I mean private education. If you're new to the debate about this and the different arguments on the topic, then there are many other threads on the subject.

As long as they don’t get to know anyone whilst they’re there, otherwise if they got a job it would be because of who they know just like someone who’s dad wasn’t a train driver at 14. Ah, it’s almost as if equality of outcome ideology is a load of bollocks.

’artificially elevate the abilities of the children’ - what evidence do you have with regards to this?

i would wager that 99% of the pupils at academically selective private schools would get exactly the same grades whether they went state/private. Most of the contacts the parents have don’t come from the school but personal. What evidence is there that children from private schools are undeserving of the positions in organisations such as the civil service that they have?

LOL, does state provided education ‘artificially elevate the abilities of their children’ ?

You won’t get an answer, just some waffle.

But let’s not give a shit about those struggling in the middle who do not have a magic contacts book either. It’s hugely difficult for all who are not privately educated and don’t have connected parents to get a foot on any ladder. Internships are like gold dust. Most in the squeezed middle are still struggling to pay bills, work and recover from topping up lower uni loans at this stage of life. They are in no position to help their young people. Many will even be on lower household incomes than some on 2x incomes on the socio economic list.

It’s a bonkers measure and if they really cared they’d do something about the massively high numbers of the privately educated in the CS which this does nothing to counteract.

.

What evidence is there that children from private schools are more deserving of the positions they have than children without their advantage? Intelligence and ability is found in all demographics, its not the preserve of the wealthy. Yet the children of the wealthy are over represented in positions of power and influence. Which even if we ignore what is 'fair', means we are overlooking a pool of potential talent from other demographics, some of whom, if given the chance may be better suited to the roles. That's all this scheme does, gives a chance for otherwise overlooked talent to be spotted and utilised to benefit us all.

I took that sentence (rightly or wrongly) to mean that just because anyone can theoretically apply, it doesn't mean the playing field is level or that everyone has an equal chance.

about sums it up.

No you’re right everyone hasn’t got an equal chance, graduates from the squeezed middle on lower loans at uni, no private education and no CO are just as screwed. Some will have big life struggles to manage too and may even be from families on lower incomes than some whose jobs are on the low socio list. Having a parent who is a nurse or low paid IT worker is not a golden spoon into the CS and those with an ounce of common sense know that.

I didn't say otherwise. My post was in reply to someone calling a pp's post word salad.

I beg your pardon?

Internships are only a summer thing and don't lead to a job offer.

It can fast-track you through the initial selection phases of the civil service fast stream. So definitely not just a summer thing.

It doesn’t make sense to repeat something written down.

Lots of posts here about private vs state. That is an unjustified comparison. Most private schools are not like the elite ones (Eton, Harrow etc) but are much more modest provincial ones. These private schools would give you nothing like the connections or privilege of the top London selective state schools - of the kind Labour prime minister’s kids often attend.

They aren’t more deserving but just equally deserving. Saying that they don’t deserve their success or haven’t worked hard is simply unearned is very unfair.

@5128gapNo. The amount of academic intelligence is not the same in all demographics. The middle class are the middle class precisely because they have elevated their status from working class via state education and their jobs. They have aspired to something better and how many true working class now have the academic standards to do that? Not as many as immediately post ww2.

They don’t deserve the massive advantages and disadvantages it brings to others though and Labour should be doing something about it instead of faux signalling and setting those in the middle and under back even further.

OP what do you think Civil Servants do?
It is not all Policy - they man Job Centres, Administer Benefits, Prison Officers, Border Guards etc. And if more of them actually represent the communities they deal with and try to reach then the better it is for society.

Just because you are working class doesn’t mean you are “incompetent “ BUT you may feel the civil Service and even more promotion “isn’t for the likes of me”. So it’s a good thing to “widen participation “ just like Universities do.

And I have met a lot of young middle class (very bright) young people who have made decisions that just don’t acknowledge the many cultural differences I. British Society (class, north-south, urban-rural, special groups eg Romany etc.)

I work with civil servants a lot; they’re not all Sir Humphrey’s anymore. At the junior end many really aren’t that bright, competent or well informed about the wider world.

I said something similar upthread. Why would someone bright and driven want to go to CS? there are much more exciting and better paid careers.

This reminded me of USSR policies - to get a job in CS or any state structures candidate would need to pass a robust KGB check that their parents were working class, not some unreliable intelligencia. Remember how this all ended up?

All that Labour will achieve by doing this is alienating yet another group of voters, this time lower middle class.

Honestly pls give working class kids a leg up. My DC can’t benefit from this but I would have. I spent my late teens begging for work experience and being turned down because i didn't have the right connections.

When i was early career I ended up looking after the kids and relatives of execs who had been handed prestigious internships but openly admitted to having zero interest in the area. I would have given anything for that chance.

I have experienced the Civil Service in Whitehall for some of my career and it is full of middle class people who know how to present themselves and talk the talk because they’ve grown up with parents doing the same. It is a huge advantage - it puts you a decade ahead of a working class kid who gas none of that institutional knowledge of how the world works.

Even though there is supposedly fair and open competition, plum jobs still get handed out to the kids of well known names or those with connections with ministers and senior leaders. These people are usually very able but there are a lot of able people in Whitehall and it is interesting to see how those with connections careers’ are accelerated.

So this is 💯 a good thing and it is nice that under represented groups now include working class people.

but again as someone who is middle class- ie have a professional job, I have zero contacts at all. None of my friends do anything useful to my children at all. My daughter was supposed to do work experience but I had no one to ask and so she didn’t do it. I don’t know any of the other parents at their school as I am always working so don’t get to socialise with them. Who are all these people with all these plum connections? I am not even allowed to get my children work experience in my own office as they don’t allow employees to give experience to their own children!

No the CS is not full of the middle classes as the charts show, the middle is the most unrepresented group. The squeezed middle do not have connections, a private education , do not talk the talk or know how to present themselves in the higher echelons. My husband came from poverty. The terms lower class/ lower middle, middle all are highly subjective and ambiguous which is why this measure is bonkers and hugely unfair.

Loving the way Labour dress up social mobility as keeping the massive privately educated rich status quo whilst pummelling the lower middle classes and stamping on their hands as they try to pull themselves up instead. Good job!👏