We need to start charging for NHS services

[Fragmentedbrain]

£15 for the GP
£20 for A&E
NHS routes to paid-for fast track treatment
Options to pay for nicer rooms

We need to stop putting working people on disability benefits for want of a functioning health service it's barbaric

So people who can't afford it and therefore become seriously ill, then what? Left to die at home in excruciating pain?

My mum was recently in hospital for 2 weeks. Each day she was given 4 cups of tea but didnt touch any of them.

If we'd had the option of making a little donation for things like that, we would have done. i.e if theyre making 4x hot drinks for every single patient every single day, that in itself must be a fortune.

What the NHS needs is someone at the top who has worked in hospitals and KNOWS where a lot of the costs are being wasted. Eg poor communication among staff which doubles work effort, where resources are wasted and unnecessary scans are carried out etc.

Isn't a lot of that because so many healthcare practitioners go abroad rather than stay and work in the NHS in its current overstretched condition? If we had a system that worked and was more attractive to work in maybe we wouldn't have such a big shortage of staff. Would also mean less dependence on overseas nationals who come here and leave their own countries short of HCPs.

I'm not qualified to say what's wrong and how to put things right, but it's pretty clear that something major has to change. Unfortunately we have very few politicians with the vision, backbone and competence to drive major changes through.

So based on arguments here, the population of UK is considerably poorer than population of other European countries where some form of payment is present. Is that right?

@XXLfiles something like that. UK is all special and different because of our "wonderful" NHS which is the envy of the world. Or not, when you're 80 and are told 2.5 years minimum wait to see a consultant to discuss a hip replacement.

I would support sanctions for time wasters. Beyond that, no. If you want special or fast track treatment, go private. The NHS should never give preference to those with money over those without money.

And do not conflate your opinions about the NHS with your opinions on disability and/or benefits claims. If disability could be "cured" by faster or better healthcare then it wouldn't be a disability. It may be alleviated for a time, but for many, disability just "is". It is our life. A life that may also, as in my own case, include working throughout. What is barbaric is constantly being told that because you are disabled you are responsible for "the benefits problem", or that better healthcare will somehow magic you into being able to do things that you cannot do. There are 9.9 million people claiming some form of benefit in the UK (some of whom will be working) and of those 4.2million people are claiming some form of sickness /disability related benefit (some of whom will also be working). And 13 million over state pension age claiming state pension (some of whom will also be working). How exactly will the NHS be getting them all into work????

What exactly do you think is causing the problems with the NHS? Is it:

1. Less productivity? Is it because beaurocracy is increasing? Poor communication? Lazier staff?
2. That people are getting sicker? Is this real or are people seeking help more readily? Are we getting better at diagnosing illness?
3. Healing people is getting more expensive? Are drugs and other treatments getting more expensive? Are staff more expensive? Are illnesses getting more complex?

Unless we identify the problem we won't find the solution and it won't get any better. Throwing money at it is just a scatter gun otherwise.

To the original poster I wonder how old you are? You don’t know what your future holds. I worked for the nhs for 36 yrs paid in to NI for 40yrs still owe 2 yrs, started paying in at 15yrs old probably was ill for a long time but menopause escalated the rise of autoimmune kidney disease & other autoimmune diseases ( 90% are women who get them) I had to retire. I was lucky I was able to do that but had been astute financially. Another friend who was a nurse ended up after retraining to come back with a brain tumour she also had long term autoimmune disease. We are both in our late 50’s. Most women don’t earn nearly as much as men how do you think they are going to pay these fees with chronic illness?

I love the way people forget that we are already paying with massive national insurance bills, and taxation on every darn thing we buy ( almost)

Tempting, but it's a slippery slope. People who should go won't go. But I do hate those few who ruin it for many

I will piss of lots of people but NHS is quite known abroad for jokes like "yeah, that's broken hand, take paracetamol for few weeks, will be fine".... And has been for decades.

I do think we’re not far from this being brought in to be honest, and will be something similar to the dentist with different bands with their own £.

It can’t continue as it is, something has to change. The easiest change for them would be just introducing a cost so that will be their first bet!

Thing is, where do you draw the line.
I take part in different sports which in theory keeps me healthy and may hopefully mean I use the NHS less.
However, it does slightly put me at higher risk of having an accident/injury and therefore more likely to use their services. Do I get charged then?
In theory penalising time wasters is a great idea but how do you enforce it? The cost to administer it would likely far outweigh how much it would bring in.

I'm a full time nurse, get paid on Thursday but I have nothing in my bank. You are seriously saying if I had an accident and broke a bone for example (as I did last Summer) I couldn't access A n E, despite paying all my National Insurance contributions since I qualified in 2001?

This contradicts the entire ethos of the NHS. Treatment is free at point of use. End of.

You were lucky to have worked for one employer and have continuous pension contributions. I'm 71 and worked for a variety of different private employers, most of whom I can't claim a pension from, either because I wasn't there long enough or because the pension was 'non contributory' i.e. part of my salary. Thanks to successive governments changing the rules, planning ahead has been pretty difficult.

I am a high earner and so are many of my friends. We were discussing this and most were saying that they have gone fully private in the past 6-8 years. A combination of private insurance and cash pay. So the top 1% already doesn’t use the NHS any more. Some good consultants have moved to private only (eg have a look at some specialised clinics such as fortius etc many are now staffed by full time private orthopaedic consultants). Same for dermatologists, etc. the slope is already slippery and getting more slippery by the day

You only need to look at the damage done by dentistry charges to see this is a ridiculous idea.

I'd just as happily see immigration properly dealt with and less subsidisation of people who decide to have children in an already hugely overpopulated society. Having children is a lifestyle choice rather than a necessity nowadays and there is already an enormous number of people who are net recipients getting paid to sit at home adding further dependents to the payroll without contributing financially.

It is for now, it may not always be.

The reality is the NHS is struggling, something will have to change, it is yet to be seen what that thing will be but it’s certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that charges would be introduced.

I think it’s worth considering given that it is a system used elsewhere in the world.

But I’d be concerned that it would prevent people seeing a gp for minor niggles which actually turn out to be very serious e.g cancer or that people don’t go to see the gp until they are really ill and require more treatment.

Also I have had phone appointments with a gp recently which have literally been two minutes long e.g to get antibiotics for uti. That has been fine in those cases for me but if you are paying for the appointment I’m not sure people would be accepting of it.

How much would this cost to administer?

This contradicts the entire ethos of the NHS. Treatment is free at point of use. End of.

Can you not get your head around the argument that the "entire ethos" is outdated and has to change? And that there should be constructive debate around what that change should look like, rather than just parroting "end of"?

Cool. So I’d have had to pay £100s to get treated for my chronic health condition that now requires surgery?

I’m ok with the principle but it would have so many exemptions , like prescription services that it would only squeeze “the middle” more.

The biggest users of the nhs gp services and the most likely to no show are the elderly and they’d be exempt.

i imagine like prescriptions we’d also have to exempt for certain illnesses. I had cancer last year and it would have bankrupt me to pay £15 per appt!

then you add in working age disabled and working age low income and then who’s left? Would cost loads to administer without reducing the queues significantly.

The NHS is on it's knees because of underfunding, cuts and overworked staff. There is no more staff which is why waiting lists are so long. Brexit also cost the UK a lot in the way of staff. My husband has private health insurance. Very lucky for us but we still often have to wait a while to access services as there aren't enough health professionals. We need to start paying health care workers a decent wage and better conditions and attract more to the profession. I'd happily pay more in tax into our NHS if it improved things. Moving to privatisation would be hugely detrimental to some. I'd be terrified if we moved towards America's health care services. People having to sell their house to pay their medical bills. It's a slippery slope.