We need to start charging for NHS services

[Fragmentedbrain]

£15 for the GP
£20 for A&E
NHS routes to paid-for fast track treatment
Options to pay for nicer rooms

We need to stop putting working people on disability benefits for want of a functioning health service it's barbaric

There are two ways of looking at that. I paid for my cataract surgery because there was a two year waiting list at the time and I was told I was no longer safe to drive. I wasn’t prepared to spend two years going blind when I could afford to pay. By doing so I left my place on the NHS list for someone else. Perhaps the moral thing is to pay if you can afford it.

Also, does that mean the NHS should pay a fine to the patient when they are fobbed off/misdiagnosed?

My son was misdiagnosed and life saving surgery delayed which also ended up being cancer and caused my son complications including permanent disability.

Why should I pay for appointments etc when the NHS mistakes caused my son’s disability?

Going full circle, the small fee to see the GP would hopefully be used to help finance areas like addiction and mental health in general. The concept would be that fee would be used wisely and beneficial to wider society and issues. In theory people wouldn’t get to crisis point the way they do now, because financially mental health would be much better funded.

That would be the hope anyway I guess.

The "small fee" would just disappear with a giant sucking sound

This is a building based service with loads of employees, many lowish paid. Energy costs are up, maintenance costs are up, minimum wage and NI are up...

@Ponoka7 , @Teanbiscuits33 you both make good points.

Anyone can make a mistake and think they need A&E but they don't. Or the staff cannot find out what is wrong. These people are not the problem.

The problem are those cases where it is either really egregious misuse, or repeated abuse (3+ warnings). These are the ones that should be fined.

I used to work in a welfare role, one part of this role was to help people to access statutory services when they weren't used to navigating the health or social care system. We had regular incidents where "advice" from dubious organisations was given which recommended using A&E basically as a walk in clinic if you couldn't see GP. Or if you were sent a letter for a consultant appointment to go to A&E and complain of exacerbation of symptoms repeatedly in the belief that they'd get pushed up the list. Some of this stuff was so so clearly not an A&E situation. Some didn't even need a GP but could be dealt with at a pharmacy.

Similarly to the concept of it being an offence to waste police time, there is a threshold. If you call to report your child missing, but they are found safe and well at a friends after a simple misunderstanding, you are not going to be prosecuted as you asked for help in good faith. However persistent and flagrant abuse of the system can be punished. I think that is the distinction that needs to be made clear.

Maybe we should fine people who are involved in RTA's too because they chose to get in a car?

If we charge people for time wasting at A&E what happens if 111 suggest they go?

Presumably the usual people will not have to pay. leaving the same people propping them up even more. Certainly fines for missed appointments should be applied, to everyone.

There should be a charge for A&E attendance and it needs to be similar to a GP charge. So not a big charge but a fee nonetheless.

There will be exceptions- and these people will have cover.

Whether you go for a broken leg, heart attack, overdose etc there should be a charge

When I worked in a pharmacy, most of the people getting their medicine were entitled to free prescriptions. The majority of people who pay for their prescriptions don't actually use the GP that much.

If people don’t have children who will pay tax to pay your pension and be part of the workforce in the future?

When would people be charged? Because many people admitted to A&E are not even conscious... and some do not wake up for a long time, or even at all.

Good point.

My son had a cardiac arrest on the day he was admitted to A&E. He was then transferred to a different hospital where he had emergency surgery he almost didn’t survive and then just a week later was also diagnosed with cancer. He was in intensive care for the first 7 weeks.

He didn’t go home after that A&E visit until 10 months later.

I wonder if they would’ve charged me before or after my son’s cardiac arrest? Or not until his discharge 10 months later?

Or if he didn’t survive, would I have still been charged despite the fact the first hospital initially misdiagnosed him and told us he’d be home by the next day?

Ridiculous idea- you’d put off people who really should go.

And how are you going to charge people who haven’t chosen to go?

I hope your son is doing better. There is never a happy reason to visit A&E but these charges usually apply if you are not admitted to hospital. So not in your sons case

Such lazy thinking.

Wages are higher in those countries, so more people can actually afford those charges. 🙄

If you have any stats on how many German/Dutch/Norwegian families are 'unable to work because of some chronic condition', though, I'm sure we'd all be interested in seeing them.

He’s now disabled thanks to the NHS initially misdiagnosing him because the delayed treatment caused septic shock which caused his cardiac arrest.

He’s in remission and survived but it was life changing. I lost my job due to his long hospital stay and I’m now his carer because he needs constant appointments.

I’d resent having to pay for these appointments because they are only necessary due to the NHS causing his disability in the first place.

@Kirbert2 Thats awful. It’s one thing to fall ill but quite another to fall ill due to incompetence. There is too much of this going on. x x

I am under the dr and hospital for regular treatment your saying it’s ok for me to pay how’s that fair?

No i dont think it is fair to all to do it that way. Some people who are on a limited budget due to not earning a lot would be at a real disadvantage but probably wouldn't qualify for help.

Perhaps reduce my tax payment then. I already pay for private medical insurance and private school fees. Now this? No chance. I pay more than my fair share.

People are getting sick and getting wise because THEY CANT GET A FUCKING GP APPOINTMENT

The middle-class is being squeezed, but that's not because of the working-class or people on UC. Maybe focus on the millionaires and billionaires, and the owners of companies that don't pay staff well, or the water companies increasing bills when they pour more sewage into water. Also, those with children, elderly, disabled, and poor are also (like the middle class) being punished. They are working multiple jobs, but landlords keep increasing rents to ridiculous prices, so they are often getting evicted or sharing 1 bed room with 2 kids and the parent. More and more schools now have to wash children's clothes and get them beds not because these parents don't love their children but because they can not pay the electricity bills so don't do as many washes. People can fall on hard times, suddenly the rent is too high, and then you've gone homeless. Suddenly you become disabled (which most people do across life) and you can't work anymore. Or even if you can work, employers discriminate against you. Or you get pregnant (maybe you're in an abusive relationship or struggling with substance abuse), and then the child suffers because of who they were born to?

You essentially want those who are poor, disabled, single mothers, live in extreme deprivation to pay because you have to pay. You're displacing your anger onto those vulnerable groups simply because you're annoyed that you have to pay. The solution is not to attack those living in dire situations who genuinely need and deserve their medication but cannot afford it. This whole division means we all just spend out time blaming each other, when in reality were all cogs and we should focus on the people controlling the systems. Also for people who have chronic conditions I wouldn't have them pay either, as its unfair because they'll have more regular appointments, more use etc.

They say it's only fair and it's only £5. Then it's £10 because of inflation. Then it's £20 but it's your health, right? Then it's £100, 200 500. They have done this a hundred times. Will you ever learn?

I always laugh at people who say the NHS is the "envy of the world." It's not. It never was. It was an average public health service. Now it's not good enough.