To think most “open-minded” people just want everyone else to agree with them?

[PearlMember]

Try disagreeing, the tolerance evaporates fast.

I'll admit I hold left wingers to a higher standard because I am one and don't wish to be associated with assholes. I don't expect ultra right wingers to be anything but ignorant bigots. That may be where the OP is coming from as well.
But you are right in that right wing bigotry is much more serious an issue than left wing hypocrisy. The problem is that if the left makes fools of themselves it lends credibility to right wing criticism. I don't want that so I will get on leftists to do better.

@PearlMemberI understand what you're getting at. I know someone like this. They like to be thought of as very liberal, telling us how we shouldn't judge and should be inclusive. Yet they judge me and my dh on our views, because, well, we have slightly more conservative views they don't agree with.

Arguably though your post is an example I suspect of what the OP is talking about.

It's the Conservative Party that have had three female party leaders, as well as one who is Asian and one who is black. And there are plenty of gay conservative party members.

The Labour Party, otoh, have only ever had white male leaders, but their supporters seem convinced that they on the left are somehow the only ones who have "inclusive" politics.

It's weird isn't it. We all know how progressive Tories are, their policies speak for themselves.

That argument doesn't quite work, because that can be due to other factors or completely coincidental. It could be that Labour just hasn't had a particularly compelling female candidate, for example. Besides, the Tories aren't an extreme right wing party, they're just right of centre, so I doubt people are referring to Tories when they speak of bigots. They probably mean Reform supporters.

I do take your point though. Labour shouldn't claim they are the only party that is inclusive and inclusivity shouldn't be seen as the be all and end all of moral superiority. It's quite possible to be inclusive and a massive arsehole at the same time.

Once again examples?

I mean I can handle different opinions but if the opinion is “the apartheid regime was a fantastic thing” or “giving women the vote was a mistake” then yes I am likely to be dismissive.

This is how it feels - yep.

Ok. I get you now. I have noticed this but have not noticed it being confined to any particular belief system.

I think those more on the conservative just choose not to see when they are behaving like that too.

I mean this argument is trotted but it’s so hollow.

It reeks of shallow symbolism. I think the average black Briton would take 1,000 white male MPs over one Kemi Bad Enoch.

And it‘s odd to hear conservatives laud the female, black and brown shields they have as MPs while attacking DEI and asking “why is gender / race important?”

(And it doesn’t escape attention that it’s the Bravermans, Patel’s and Bad Enochs who are used to push some of the most aggressive rhetoric against minorities either. There is nothing “progressive” about that.)

Where did you see me defending the Labour Party or holding it up as an example of left-wing, progressive or inclusive values? Why are you lumping anything vaguely nominally left-wing under one umbrella?

Yes op my colleague is very left wing. Thinks she's very tolerant and kind but goes off in on a rant about religion and how it's terrible and all the wars it causes (in reality only 7% of wars are caused by religion) so yes many people pretend to be tolerant but are intolerant in many ways.

That's actually not a good example of intolerance. Religion is a belief system and as such is fundamentally different from race, sex etcetera. Nobody should feel obligated to be tolerant of beliefs they find objectionable. It would be a different matter if she was nasty to people for being religious though. But a rant about something she's passionate about is not intolerance, though if she does it often it does sound like she's insensitive and should probably stfu about it out of consideration for others. Do you ever tell her you don't want to hear it?

YABU, I think a healthy debate it good. If you're just disagreeing then you're not being open minded so I can see why someone might get annoyed at you

The only time ‘open-minded’ is routinely used on here is on ‘woo’ threads, and used of themselves by posters who think that a feather in the garden is more likely to constitute a message from a dead relative than a passing bird.

But OP, politely shutting down dialogue isn't necessarily a sign of a person not being open-minded. Open-mindedness is being prepared to listen to arguments and to change your mind, but only if those arguments are new to you.

It is quite possible for someone to have listened to the available points and then take a stance, and not really want to go over the same old points again and again. They're still open to new arguments though. I'm not going to waste my time if the person has nothing new to bring to a discussion. You might regard that as an entrenched view but maybe your opinions are the very same ones that informed my stance in the first place! Bring me a new angle to consider though, and yes, I'd listen.

Although very often the person trying to change another's mind is not prepared to listen or discuss or be open-minded themselves, they just want to be the winner, and that's guaranteed to make me dig my heels in.

I concur. I am not interested in hearing arguments pro death penalty or anti-abortion.

Not because I am “close minded” but because I have heard them multiple times before and still disagree.

I often think sometimes people who accuse “liberals” of not being open-minded are actually complaining that people will not change their mind to agree with them.

It's a protected characteristic so it's not different. Yes she knows my children are Catholic and has made several digs about how she thinks it's indoctrination ect and she's taught her child to believe in 'science' how she doesn't want her child going to church at easter with the school ect. I told her opt her child out then no one forces them. I have told her in no uncertain terms I'm not interested in hearing about her atheism. She's been quieter recently! I think she realised she overstepped last time but didn't apologise.

Regardless of being a protected characteristic, it is not immutable like race or sex. It is a chosen belief system. Beliefs can always be challenged, but as I said, it's a different matter when insulting somebody as a person for being religious.
Also, if nobody asked her what she thinks of religion, it would have been polite to have kept her opinions to herself. I'm glad to hear she has toned down the rhetoric. Unfortunately there are quite a number of rude, mouthy atheists.

That it’s a protected characteristic in a legal sense doesn’t matter in a personal sense. Nor does change what that PP said. Belief systems aren’t immutable traits. They are something we have complete control over.

Also I don’t think it’s correct to say a faith itself is a protected characteristic. It’s the person.

There is no logical sense religious belief should be treated differently to political beliefs except law based on tradition.

Right. Being a protected characteristic means you can't discriminate against someone based on his/her religion in housing, jobs, etcetera. It doesn't mean you can't criticize religion.

I actually find it really intriguing to have the difficult conversations about opposing views…..because I’m fascinated by the “why”. Why do you think that?
What sources have you used to form the opinion?
Is there something about this topic that’s has personally affected you that makes you think that way?
I may not agree with the opinion, but I think it’s really important to know WHY you have that opinion.
Since I’ve lived in the US, these types of conversations have come up quite frequently. Having conversations with people that have certain opinions that I find completely abhorrent…..but the why has been so important. It’s made me understand how they formed that opinion. 9 times out of 10 it’s been a grossly misinformed opinion, but now I understand how that happens, particularly in the current social/political climate.