To think that one of the NHS’s biggest problems is that it’s almost impossible to sack anyone?

[SnugShaker]

I know the NHS is under huge pressure and that many staff work incredibly hard. But from what I’ve seen and heard, one major issue is that it’s extremely difficult to dismiss underperforming employees. Unlike in the private sector, where people who don’t pull their weight are usually let go, the NHS seems to have layers of bureaucracy that protect staff, even when they’re not competent.

I’ve heard of people who do the bare minimum (or less) staying in their jobs for years, making life harder for colleagues who have to pick up the slack. Surely this impacts patient care and efficiency? AIBU to think that making it easier to remove underperforming staff would improve things? Or is there a good reason for the system being the way it is?

Some people couldn't even keep a job in the NHS. 🤷‍♀️ I know a relative who was sacked by the NHS and it was definitely long overdue by the time she went. They employ some very unsuitable people in their desperation for warm bodies.

It’s got bigger problems.

Not one does 5 days a week because the days they do work tend to be 12 hours long. Or more.

It certainly is, I've been in HE for 40 years till my retirement and it's worse now

Ok, but there's the fact that many other jobs and previous generations of doctors did

I love the NHS but don’t disagree with this. Same as the bullying culture, which is often driven (in my experience) by the same underperforming staff members, who have the power of many decades of feeling they're untouchable to fuel their behaviour.

100% correct. Performance and absence management are killing the nhs. 6 months full pay amd 6 months half pay, why would anyone rush back to work?

This plus staff who absolutely know how to work the system, ridiculous unreasonable adjustments and claiming bullying and harassment to make sure managers are too scared to follow formal protocols.

All public sector employers are the same. Nobody ever gets sacked, they just get shunted around different departments. If it ever looks like a manager has the guts to take them on and go down a disciplinary route they just go off sick. On full pay, for years.

It's a joke.

This again? I thought we only did this one on Wednesdays.

My boss at the hospital is lazy, incompetent and all the other negatives. Turns up when she damn well pleases and sods off home early most days. The only part of the hospital she knows her way to are the exit and the cafe.

Protected by the higher-ups, she is nothing but an Oxygen and salary thief.

Thing is, when she is off on annual leave, everything runs much more smoothly and no-one notices she's not there.

Absolutely not true. It’s very easy to get rid of a teacher. It’s being done daily to excellent, experienced teachers because they are expensive.

Our chefs and catering assistants over mental health and the community hospitals are all employed directly by NHS

Many GPs do work 5 days a week, but face the patients for less than that

They are often training (CPD), in supervision, performing duty doctor shifts (not seeing patients, but giving clinical opinions on requests and incoming test results), in budget, MARAC, MASH, Prevent, MDT and practice meetings, discussing palliative patients and sometimes on house calls

Just because a doctor isn't seeing patients, doesn't mean he or she is not at work

Why should the have to do a 5 day week? Opting for a work life balance by going part time doesn’t = incompetent

I have read multiple threads on this site of women who don’t have enough work to fill a day let alone a week, and almost invariably they work for the NHS or the MOD.

But from what I’ve seen and heard, one major issue is that it’s extremely difficult to dismiss underperforming employees.

It's a problem. DD is doing clinical placements in hospitals and some of the staff have been less than helpful. She spoke to the tutor who arranges the placements and when she said who it was that was being unhelpful the tutor said that those staff members had been spoken to before about their treatment of students, and one in particular was rude to everyone, even her (she is also rude to patients).

From my experience, it's not frontline staff e.g. receptionists, doctors, nurses, etc. It's the background staff working in IT, admin staff who work outside of hospitals, and patient info staff. Obviously they do vital roles, but from what I've seen, this is where people slack, get away with working from home, having all the 'sick' days, and getting paid overtime for on call hours where they're not needed for much and get paid to sit around at home. This is where they can find a bit of money, not in cutting vital services to the public. Plus the top end staff being paid 6 figures for doing the same jobs lower band staff are doing. It's an absolute mess, but they're in the job for life if they can keep getting away with it.

Links? Because I haven’t.
plus evidence they aren’t bullshitters.

They usually get promoted!!

This 100%
Been 30+ years in the NHS and never seen it so bad. Managers are unable to manage, as those who play the system are enabled.

Seen competent team leaders be dragged through the mud by poorly performing / abusing sickness staff who are being managed playing the victim card.

Anxiety/ bullying is the new weapon of defence these days. Not helped by HR policies being overly ‘inclusive’ at the cost of work boundaries and expectations.

Only comment for this thread.

It's always been the same

It's the 'Peter Principle' people get promoted in the NHS above their level of competency. They have no managerial experience and they cannot performance manager poor performing staff.

I was so shocked when I first started working in the NHS with regards to the behaviours and work ethic which was seen as acceptable.

Poor behaviours don't get challenged, poor performance isn't addressed and highly paid managers have no idea how to manage other than by bullying staff.

The whole culture is so hierarchical and so archiac with so little accountability. There is no reward for good performance and there is no detrimental impact for poor performance.

The NHS needs to introduce performance related pay and stop rewarding everybody the same with moving through the pay bands on a 'time served' basis.

I haven't either. The posts from posters who nap or have baths all day earn 6 figures or close to that, and I doubt that they work for the NHS.

NHS worker here and I agree with you OP.

Surprised they managed to get another job after being off sick for 3 months. You’d think that would effectively make them unemployable.