People who are into conspiracy theories

[Wasneverintomickeyandminnie]

Are they mentally ill?

I read once that they’re more likely to be

I love a good conspiracy theory and uncovering the truth about things.

Currently quite obsessed with the whole Epstein thing, find the McCanns situation very odd, covid was strange etc

Are you into them too, am I mentally ill 🙈😬😅

I’m not saying that Trump’s lies weren’t pushed by his supporters. Of course they were. But a widespread lie doesn’t equal a conspiracy theory. A British example would be the lies that were told about supposed establishment paedophiles - that was even called “credible” by the police and promoted in Parliament…before the liar got 18 years for perverting the course of justice.

As for traffic schemes, in London at least one council has backtracked in the face of overwhelming local opposition. The opponents aren’t swivel eyed loons; they just want to be able to drive their cars!

Why so prickly?

The Macanns situation is odd, Epstein shouldn't have had any period of his suicide watch unaccounted for but the Covid theories are batshit, too many people would have to be involved.

I think you're more mentally ill if you believe everything you are told

They’re disadvantaged in some way, or in several ways, e.g mentally unwell, socially disadvantaged, educationally or intellectually disadvantaged - so conspiracy theories fill the void to make up for the feelings of inadequacy. They make them feel intelligent, important and socially accepted in their echo chambers where they get validation and feel seen and connected. That’s all there is to it, really. You’ll find every CT fits into one or more of those groups. Or they’re narcissistic.

Related to these are the ones who think all weather is engineered, and make normal atmospheric conditions or cloud formations into some sinister plot.

I know one of those. I've showed her images of paintings by Constable and earlier artists, and asked her to explain how these cloud formations were manipulated hundreds of years ago, when technology was so limited. She just shrugs.

Sometimes there's a fine line between healthy scepticism and a conspiracy theory though. There are a lot of unexplained holes around Lee Harvey Oswald's responsibility for the assassination of JFK imo, and I can see why people are suspicious about Jeffrey Epstein's suicide, despite personally believing it was suicide.

I generally think that weird stuff is generally more likely to be caused by cock-ups than by conspiracy, but that doesn't mean that all conspiracy theories are wrong.

My MIL has never believed the moon landings were real. They bought a colour tv so they could watch it in colour, and while watching it she sat there saying it was all fake and done on a film set. She was in her early 30s, so it's not like she was senile or anything.

She thinks that the conspiracy theories around the death of Diana are rubbish though, and that people make them up to try and discredit the royal family, so goes full circle on that one. Oh, and Prince Andrew is truly a prince among men and would never get involved in anything seedy, because the royal family are above all that sort of thing. All those rumours are just nonsense peddled by anti-royalists.

The conflation of the idea of 15 minutes cities (encouraging, via the planning process, having amenities like shops, parks, schools with a fifteen minute walk of where you live) and the traffic control schemes being proposed by some councils is a sure sign of a conspiracy theorist. No council is going to ban people from travelling more than 15 minutes from their home! Even if you seriously believe that councils would do such a thing, how are they going to track people individually from their home and monitor how far they go?

Ahh, apparently private car ownership will be banned or controlled through chips in electric cars. Fines for leaving the area without government permission. 😉

@LakieLady
I know one of those. I've showed her images of paintings by Constable and earlier artists, and asked her to explain how these cloud formations were manipulated hundreds of years ago, when technology was so limited. She just shrugs.

On our local FB post the response to that was that obviously Constable was just painting a moment in time and the chem trails (which they do think were produced by planes on the government orders btw) were earlier in the day.

It's a great example of you can't argue with stupid.

I think we agree on some of this but not on the conclusion.

All 15-minute city plans include restrictions on car use. That’s the point of them. And a very worthy point it is too. That can be done in many ways but usually requires enforcement.

Objectors who say the government is trying to stop free movement and wants to monitor people are indeed conspiracy theorists. That’s who’s “bonkers”.

But people who don’t want to be penalised for keeping and driving a car - virtually all of the objectors - are just normal folk who disagree with planners.

I suspect we do agree on some points, but can you direct me to those councils that are bringing in restrictions on car use to specifically enforce ‘15 minute cities’?

I know that some councils, like Oxford, are proposing restrictions on driving into the city centre/ using particular routes (with the proposal that residents world get ‘passes’ to use the routes so many times per year before they start getting fined, if I recall rightly). And I’m aware that many councils say they want to encourage the 15-minute city ideals of amenities within easy walking distance, such as not approving a large new housing development unless there are shops/ a park/ a school nearby that the residents could easily access.

But I’m not aware of any councils that have said they’ll use traffic restrictions to enforce the 15 minute city idea, or councils that say 15 minute cities will require traffic controls of some kind. Though many will say something along the lines of ‘encouraging use of active travel and public transport/ encouraging use of local amenities’ as part of their argument for traffic restrictions. I’d be really interested to find out if any council has been that specific.

The two actions are really quite separate, in transport planning terms - traffic controls are usually to address high levels of traffic causing congestion, and potentially ‘make space’ for bus lanes or cycle lanes, while the 15 minute city idea is more to do with planning controls and improving amenities for residents.

They're great fun OP. Just don't take them too seriously. I recommend Voodoo Histories by David Aaronovitch. Even though he exploded some of my favourite theories!

Someone I know believes the moon landings were faked. What's interesting is how absolutely they believe this and the arguments they use to support this belief. They are really nasty to about anyone who doesn't agree with them, which is obviously everyone in their rapidly decreasing social circle. Are they unwell, possibly, but to me it's more like a hyper focus which means they don't have to think about their rather, no fault of their own, awful life.

@EllieQ @SilenceOfTheTimTams
My 'source' tells me that at the moment its not coordinated. Individual councils have been ordered to start putting the infrastructure in place. Ie cycle lanes, building restrictions etc. Once enough is in place the government will put mass restrictions in place. Covid restrictions were to test the water. 😉

This is really just about terminology. If you look at it in the round LTNs, filtering etc and 15-minute cities are expressions of the same thing. But if you want to divide the subject into strictly defined meanings you’ll disagree.

The term ‘15-minute city’ fell out of use after the few conspiracy nutters got hold of it. If that hadn’t happened it would be more widely used.

Personally, I think it was always a grandiose name used to promote the aim of urban improvement (good) and to obscure revenue generation from traffic schemes (bad).

These two links make the point. Neither is anti-restriction:

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/london-assembly-work/london-assembly-publications/planning-15-minute-city-opinion-piece

https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/news/what-15-minute-cities-mean-for-uk-drivers/

Tbf in regards to fines leaving the area, in Cyprus during covid if you wanted to go out you had to text for permission. Hard to imagine people would comply but they did. And even when some restrictions were lifted, they still needed a ‘safe pass’ to go supermarket shopping. Again people complied.

Yes most of the new wave of conspiracies are driven by a sense of not fitting in (disadvantaged within society in some way, money, health, education etc). The online new world order/MAGA type stuff gives people a place and a separate society where they feel like they belong. It’s not even conspiracy as such, more like comfort for many.

Some of the old school/silly ones remain different tho. I’ve always enjoyed Avril Lavigne’s clone who is apparently touring in her place after the real one died 10 years ago.

You say that but Abba are supposedly appearing on stage every night in London. I know for a fact that some nights they’re all still in Sweden. I smell a conspiracy.

Suckers. They believe in moon🙄

Isn't it a hologram?

Yes, undoubtedly, some are for entertainment purposes, but it’s questionable whether people actually truly believe those ones, and of course some come from a genuine place of fear.

In the main though, they serve a psychological need to feel relevant and are followed by people who feel powerless and have low self esteem needing something to latch onto.

Flat earthers/covid CTs/ anti vaxxers are nearly always also far right because they’re the same faction of society that has fallen by the wayside and try to bolster their self esteem by punching down on minorities (i.e immigrants) so they get to feel superior to them as well as trying to discredit experts and anybody they see as different to them or they are threatened by.

It’s so sad really. I do feel they have increased a lot in the internet age because fewer actually socialise anymore and they’re lonely.

Those are not conspiracies though. The world and his wife knew Iraq had no WMD.
The Biden family were in denial about Joe. It happens.
COVID . Who knows . Not seeing any conspiracy there either. Conspiracy by China to fuck over their own country. Anything possible I suppose....

It's like a spaceship

I never understood why the Covid lab leak was ever thought of as a conspiracy theory. It’s as plausible as any other explanation. It may be right, it may be wrong, but it’s not a theory about shady collaboration.

Covid originating in a lab was a good one, until it became largely accepted as probable. I'm more open minded now.