AIBU at how we were treated by my GD’s nursery?

[suzyq54]

I have known my best friend over 20 years. We meet up regularly for meals and know each other’s families. When my granddaughter was due to start nursery, we decided to send her to my friend’s nursery as she worked there and we knew she would watch out for my GD. Fast forward 18 months.
My GD is now 3 1/2. She came home one day about three months ago and said that a boy in nursery who we know is a year older had stuck his tongue in her mouth. She said no members of staff were around as they were all in the kitchen! I always thought a member of staff were always ‘on the floor’.
My daughter rang the nursery and spoke to my friend and told her what had happened and she requested that my friend speak to the boy’s parents to find out where he got the idea from and to tell them what had happened, my friend said we didn’t need to do this as it was just kids playing around and she knew the family and they were ‘lovely’. My daughter still wanted them to speak to the boys parents but was told that social services would have to be involved if they did this. Again my daughter asked that they be told so they said they would. It was to safe guard their little boy too in case he’d got the idea from someone else.
The next day she was told that the parents said they did not know why their son did what he did and that it wouldn’t happen again. No mention of social services!
From that day forward my family was ignored by the nursery staff including my friend. She cut me off immediately with no word and ignored my poor daughter and son in law when they dropped off or picked up my GD.
Two weeks ago they said they had to charge her £25 for being 25 minutes late( she had rang and told them why she was late and apologised) she asked for a copy of the contract she signed at the start stating late fees. The next day they said it didn’t matter as it was the end of term and they only asked for the late fee as someone on the nursery committee was visiting that day when she was late.
Also my GD is leaving to go to another nursery next September (arranged months ago to be at her brother’s school) my son in law asked could my GD graduate at the end of term too with her friends who were leaving to go to big school but they said no she couldn’t. She had to stand there while all her friends went up on the stage to say what they wanted to be when they grew up and had photos taken. She was very sad. She asked why she couldn’t go up on stage too and was told she was just a baby! She is actually a very articulate little girl not babyish at all.
Then today, the last day, my friend hugged all the other mum’s and again totally ignored my poor daughter.
Our family is so upset by this.
Were we wrong to want safe guarding for our grand daughter? Is this how all nurseries react?
We feel so sad and let down by how we were treated.
Were the nursery right to say it was nothing, just kids playing?

It would have still messed about with the staff/child ratios and probably meant that the staff would have all been half an hour late for their lunch breaks. The expensive late fees are there as a deterrent - staff will usually waive it the first time if there is a genuine reason for the delay, but they do need the kids picked up on time

Late fees are normal. However, the tongue in mouth incident is not. Appalling response from nursery. This needs to be investigated, not just for your GD but also for the other child. Where have they learned this? Has it been done to them? Children copy/repeat things that are done to them. A referral to social care should be made, above the nurseries head if need be. It is amazing but children from ‘nice’ homes get abused as well! If social care don’t think it hits criteria, then at least you logged incident. How would you feel if it comes out in years to come that this child had been abused? (I was designated safeguarding lead professional in a primary school for many years, so I do know what I’m talking about.)

Sexual experimentation among young kids is generally a normal stage of development and nothing to worry about. I just looked it up and the tongue thing seems to be 'uncommon but normal': (Obviously unless there was force involved, although that could be difficult to gauge at that age.)
https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/preschool/Pages/Sexual-Behaviors-Young-Children.aspx
Obviously boundary teaching should occur, but I do hope the poor young boy wasn't shamed for it which could lead to problems later.

This is a one off incident which you rightly flagged up to them. I would have done the same and expressed concerns and asked for it to be monitored. You both blew out of proportion though. Your friend is right - children do all sorts of things. They bite, they push, they kick and pinch. All sorts of unpleasant behaviours but which are nonetheless normal at this age as they’re learning to process what they see around them and to regulate their emotions.

Demanding they tell the parents and over a minor one off incident was OTT.

Yes and most of them are bogus and destroy families who haven’t done anything wrong. OTT for what seems to have been a one off incident. Also too, no one seems to have factored in the way children tell stories about what has happened to them as well. They often sound worse than the reality.

Fee is normal.
Graduation isn't normal when it's not her year to, despite going to another setting. That's a bit entitled.

I'd have filed a safeguarding report about the incident independently of the nursery. Your GD disclosed an issue to you that suggests the nursery does not provide adequate care. Secondly, it is of concern that this little bit did this. While he may be copying something he's seen — is it from an inappropriate film? Is he being forced by others to do it? This is also a huge safeguarding concern.

I would still file a Safeguarding Report with the local County Safeguarding Team. You can mention that the nursery have not taken appropriate action and seem more interested in keeping it quiet.

My nursery used to charge £1 per min as well, didn't matter if we picked up at lunch (half day) or end of day, if your late your late, pretty standard. The same for graduation, none of the other nursery children were in attendance at the graduation when my DC were off to big school, the event was in another room so the children who were not graduating didn't see what was going on. Your GD wasn't graduating so I don't see why she should have been on stage, she will have her time next year when she's on route to big school.

I don’t think op wants special treatment but she knew the owner before as a friend and it’s clear now that they are being off with them. Not to speak to the parents of a child in their care is very unprofessional. It’s not like they want special treatment, they aren’t getting the same treatment as everyone else is they are being ignored and shunned by staff. Would you want your dc being cared for by people who were that rude and petty?

Late fees are normal but they obviously weren’t that bothered about them as they waived it. The graduation thing is neither here nor there, they are silly anyway.

Of course you were right to bring up the tongue thing and it’s a shame you’ve had to lose a friendship over it. But sounds like it’s no great loss to you. Hope your GD gets on better at her new nursery.

But it wasn’t a bite or a kick which IS completely normal. The little boy who is a year older put his tongue in my GD mouth!
It was to safeguard him as well that we reported it, did someone do it to him?

But very small children do all sorts of stupid things. They lick everything. Including many different bits of each other when the whim strikes. I teach 5 year olds. Even at this age (and older ) I still regularly have conversations about licking, biting, kissing etc. This is most likely to be a simple impulse. Or possibly watching his adults kissing each other.
I would expect them to have discussed it with the other parent and made it clear to the child that he’s not to do it again but it’s well within the range of normal behaviour with this age range.

This is a massive overreaction in my opinion. If this is a one off incident, with no others concerns then it is not a ‘huge’ safe guarding concern. It is a small behaviour concern to be logged and kept an eye on. Parents should have been informed. The child is 3 not 13.
He may be copying his parents kissing each other.
If there are other, prior concerns then that is different.

The follow up on the "kiss" shouldn't be relayed to you anyway. They should speak to the family but it's not your business.

As for the rest, suffice to say - don't "mix business with pleasure" in future.

I can understand your disappointment @suzyq54
You would expect better from your friend.
It hurts to know you valued her more than she values you.

My GD is 3 the boy is 4 1/2.

She’s still late though. I used to work in nurseries and I had an afternoon off booked once to help my best friend prepare for her wedding the next day (I obviously had the next day booked off too) we had two parents arrive late and I wasn’t allowed to go becuse of ratios and it put back our entire afternoon. The audacity to think you can turn up late, even in the middle of the day and not be charged a late fee is ridiculous. Are you sure it’s not behaviour like this that made them not want to talk to you?
Also, no your GD shouldn’t be included in the graduation. You chose to take her out, graduation is for those about to go to school.

They should have taken the incident with th little boy more seriously, however your daughter had no right to know exactly what action they took.

I'm not surprised your friend is being distant, she's probably horrified at the entitlement!

For previous posters calling for social services - settings keep records. They may or may not have made a call, based on what other behaviours they have witnessed. What they absolutely would not do, is tell OPs daughter about it!

This. You’ve all let a lot of emotion get in the way here I think.

Your daughter was right to report the incident to nursery. She was not right to dictate how the nursery dealt with it. The nursery will have logged it and spoken to the parents, they may well have reported it to social services but that information would not have been passed on to you/your family.
The late fees will be in the contract.
Your complaint about the graduation is frankly ridiculous - she will get her graduation/time on stage at her new nursery next year when she is moving to school.

I feel we've met before. Safeguarding is never an over-reaction. That's the point. Your attitude is why children die.

Sometimes your report is the single piece of a jigsaw or final piece of evidence needed to help keep a child safe from harm. And in the case of an Educational or Care Setting, it can be the piece of evidence to get them investigated.

I've recently witnessed a setting to be found seriously lacking in care after the Safeguarding Team investigated. As a result, they've undergone a huge transformation in terms of policies and Safeguarding practices.

In this instance the children were able to kiss because no staff were present when it happened. The next time there are no staff present a child could choke or have something happen that results in life changing injury due to the lack of care by staff.

My daughter said this same thing to the nursery.
She wanted them to just speak the other parents to safeguard the little boy too. It could have happened before but this nursery don’t seem to want to report anything. It wasn’t just a kiss, that would be fine, he put his tongue in her mouth! No one was there when it happened!!

It is not up to your daughter to make requests about how the nursery should handle situations with other parents. The nursery might or might not have done the right thing straight away, but it is irrelevant. It’s not your dds place to tell the nursery what to do and she does not have the right to be told what the outcome of the situation was.

Your GD wasn’t leaving to go to school so isn’t ‘graduating’ pre school. It is ridiculous that you think she should have been included. Should the babies who might move to another nursery be included too?

Late fees are normal when a parent is late and a fee is part of the contract.

The nursery have done nothing wrong, and you really do sound like you were expecting special treatment.

Your daughter rightfully spoke to the nursery and they should have dealt with it behind the scenes and they obviously can't give her step by step updates as to what happened. She reported it and now it's upto them to deal with it, she's no longer involved.

The graduation thing is ridiculous, it's for the children graduating up to big school not for children leaving the nursery.

Late fees are fair even if it was lunchtime, it still messes people around.

The parents should have been spoken to about the tongue incident.

Late fees are standard and your daughter was late, her session was over and it would have had an impact on staff ratios.

Graduation is for children going to school, as you GD is going to another nursery and not school she wasn't due to graduate in this cohort and shouldn't have been involved in the ceremony.

Sounds like it's for the best to part ways with the nursery but I don't see that they've don't anything wrong.

You're very good at ignoring what everyone has said about the next steps regarding that child being nothing to do with your daughter, and how ridiculous the rest of your complaints are.