To ask what causes 'food noise'?

[AllyHayHay]

I don't know an awful lot about obesity or the new weight loss drugs, but some of the positives seem to be a reduction in 'food noise' and the merciful cessation of years of endless diet cycles.

I would like to understand more about food noise though - I understand, from what I have read, what it is, but I am puzzled about how it actually starts?

From what I can make out, food noise seems to be integral to not being able to lose weight for many people. Is it something that is permanently there, say from childhood onwards, or does it develop once a certain weight has been maintained for some time?

It is something that I have only really heard about since the chatter about GLP-1 drugs became more popular online, and it would be great if a better understanding of food noise could create more awareness and understanding for doctors and healthy weight people alike, who may have previously been ignorant of it.

Food noise is just normal. I think some people have different eating habits to other people. Some people are happy with small picky meals, some people like bigger regular meals. There just isn't one way of eating. The issue is the shame that comes with it..when people talk about switching off food noise I think they mean turning off the feelings of shame.

I definitely have cravings for broccoli.

I can say as a former addict, it's exactly the same as the "next fix" noise. It absolutely consumes you and all you think about is food. I'd be sat there eating dinner already thinking about what I wanted to eat next. Exactly the same as any other kind of addiction.

It's not just normal hunger or a normal "oooh I do fancy some olives" craving, it's like having a little voice in your head going "olives olives olives olives" over and over getting louder and louder until you eat the damn olives to shut it up.

For me it started when I got clean and quit smoking. Replaced two addictions with another.

Absolutely fuck all to do with shame, I've never been ashamed of eating anything. Turning off the food noise was literally just turning the volume down on that little voice.

Did it used to be called greed?

@MidnightMeltdown at my worst binge eating but also compulsive dieting times I would binge on bowls and bowls of raw carrot. I was food obsessed but also thin!

(I had some therapy which resulted in me giving up the compulsive dieting part... I am no longer thin...)

You haven’t experienced food noise and the subsequent switching off of it due to drugs (ie Mounjaro).

Yes, when people didn't know any better 🙄.

The way I describe is that there's a part of your subconscious mind that equates food to comfort. In the key first 10 years of life food plays a huge role; every occasion - birthdays, Christmas, Easter, etc – is dominated by 'special' foods.

If we're bored, scared, unhappy, grouchy, etc, often the first thing parents/grandparents will try is to cheer us up with is a biscuit or chocolate or cake. The link between food and happiness is established early on and is reinforced for years.

When we're older and feel unhappy, bored, angry that part of the mind will pipe up to remind you that eating something sweet/forbidden always cheered us up when we were little. However adult problems generally can't be fixed as easily as those of a child, and now there's no parent to police how much we can eat, so we end up overweight, unhappy with the lack of willpower and the original problem is still there.

What I do is talk to the part of the mind that's still implementing that original strategy and ask it to...stop. It breaks the emotional bond between food and happiness and allows the rational mind to take control.

I’m sure the food noise stems from a binge/restrict cycle that so many people get in to. And with the constant food everywhere nowadays, it’s hard to avoid the junk.
I would do anything to go on the WL injections and stop this noise. It literally takes over my life. What have I eaten, what will I eat, oh no I ate over my calories, f it all then I will just eat a load more. I was restricted very heavily as a child and food was used very much as a reward. Perhaps that has something to do with it.
Unfortunately, because I used to have an eating disorder and it was diagnosed, I wouldn’t be able to go on the jabs. For me, it wouldn’t be to lose the weight. It would be to get my mental health and sanity back and stop the constant noise. Not sure how much I can take after all these years of it.

I can’t remember a time without the noise, although I don’t remember it as being so consuming while I was a child/teen. It’s really interesting reading people’s description of food noise on this thread. It’s really touching a nerve.

I do think that food noise has something to do with appetite: the sciencey explanation of the glp receptors, I relate to that. I have always had a really big appetite, always eaten lots, and it was never a problem because I guess my metabolism was also high, or I was very active. Whatever the reason, I ate pretty much everything I wanted and stayed a healthy weight until my 40s. I think was much ‘hungrier’ than normal people and my body never told me to stop eating or that I was satisfied.

But added to that, I’ve definitely got disordered eating, and that has developed and worsened from the age of around mid 20s. The food noise (I never knew I had that until it vanished when I started Mounjaro) was non-stop and all consuming. It was obsessive, not just that I was hungry. If I started a pack of biscuits or crisps I was COMPELLED to finish them. Even if I felt sick. If someone bought biscuits to a work meeting, I couldn’t focus on anything else except having those biscuits and trying to stop myself from grabbing them all and trying to look ‘normal’ to my colleagues. I wouldn’t listen to anything anyone was saying because I’d be thinking about the biscuits and what was a satisfactory gap between eating the next one. It was hard to comprehend how everyone else at the meeting seemed indifferent to the biscuits infront of us, because it derailed me totally.

I think I’m describing obsessive and addictive behaviour and thoughts. I felt totally out of control. And Mounjaro has stopped that. I can hardly believe it, but I’m indifferent to some of the foods I used to obsess about. I could cry with the sense of freedom it’s given me. The weight that has been lifted from me and allowed me to live my life, the way I imagine lots of ‘normal’ people do. I’ll take it for life if I’m allowed, because the mental benefits have been unexpected but the best thing about Mounjaro,

I presume when the noise is switched off by the drug you are able to find space in your head to approach eating in a calmer way?

Definitely. I still get hungry, but when I’m hungry I can think rationally about what to eat. I have the mental space to plan and cook properly and not feel compelled to shove anything and everything into my mouth.

I’ve no science training so I don’t know how it works but I know that it does because I’ve lost 2 stone 5 lbs since February. BMI 32 to BMI 26. I wish it had been around in the 1990s when I was secret eating as a student/young professional. Not thinking about the next food intake until I’m actually feeling a bit hungry is so liberating. I do worry about what will happen when I finish MJ next month.

That's a pretty powerful post, thanks so much for sharing it. I am glad you have gained so much insight and found relief from the noise.

It is also interesting how many of our issues seem to interconnect, especially compulsive behaviours - reading about GLP-1's has made me realise that many of my own issues (from nail biting to how I deal with anxiety and stress) have a very similar trajectory. And I can see that for those who struggle with losing weight or food addiction, prior to these drugs and the dialogue they have opened up, these feelings must have been incredibly isolating.

Also interesting to hear so many people attribute early life patterns around eating as a catalyst, too. Obviously more common than we might have thought.

Hopefully as more awareness develops people might discover and be able share how to cross that particular bridge successfully.

For me, food noise is a result of disordered eating in childhood. I hated eating as a child and every meal was a battle - partly due to my mother's awful cooking and partly due to some sensory issues (I couldn't eat my lunch in the school canteen as the smell made me throw up). I only started enjoying food when in my late teens but then developed bulimia as I worried I was getting fat, this continued throughout my 20s.

Thankfully got over it in my 30s but it's left its mark, I constantly think about food in an unhealthy way (bingeing) and have to control everything to the point of obsession.

i was slim until aged 9 or 10 when my life became much less happy. After that I became obsessed with food and would think about it non stop, deprive myself all day at school and then binge and eat in secret at home. After I started gaining weight I put up with my mum's very critical views of my weight and greediness whilst craving more food and never feeling satisfied after meals again. I think some of us are genetically predisposed to putting on weight and having a slower metabolism once puberty kicks in, but equally I believe life events can be very triggering to children. In my case it was parents who hated each other, a cruel mother and being forced to leave my friends and change schools to suit my parent's lifestyle. They never cared about my happiness and made it hard for me to see friends, and I believe in found comfort in food from then. My mother was also obsessed with her weight and looks and gave both me and my sibling disordered eating for life! I did manage to lose weight in my late teens and stayed slim until I had kids... but the food noise over the last decade has been truly overwhelming until I started mounjaro last year. I have maintained my weight loss for nearly 6 months without it; but it's a daily battle against the food noise!

And I can see that for those who struggle with losing weight or food addiction, prior to these drugs and the dialogue they have opened up, these feelings must have been incredibly isolating.

Absolutely. Being told for years and years (and for some people their whole lives) that it’s because you are lazy, or lack willpower, or you’re greedy. Constantly trying to restrict and failing every time. People telling you to just do more exercise, or just stop eating so much. If everyone felt the same as me, it was humiliating and shameful and (although I was out of control) all my own fault. It’s honestly like a huge weight (metaphorically) being lifted to discover that there’s probably a medical reason for this. Not only is is not my fault, there’s a medicine I can take to make it better!

What I also think needs to be acknowledged a good deal more is that 'diet and exercise' very rarely work for a large majority of people who are very overweight. It may seem to make sense, but going off how we have been struggling with this 'solution' since the 1970's or so, it obviously needs revision.

At a 'healthy' weight, yes, it works. If I gain a few lbs I can lose it easily.
From what I have learned, the earlier a solution to weight loss is located, the better the long term outcome. So expecting someone to fight uphill with diet and exercise for decades ought to be considered outdated advice.

It isn't a 'short cut', it's life altering.

A healthy approach to food and activity is vital for all of us, but punishing those who can't just flip the switch isn't working either.

I wanted to say @AllyHayHay thank-you for such a careful and thoughtful thread. Most of us on MJ know the way that discussions around WLI's go, and I really appreciate something that comes from a place of curiosity and where we can gently chew (no pun intended) over how this affects us all.

You know when you’re at a team meeting and someone has brought doughnuts for the team?

They would be absolutely shouting at me to be eaten. Have a doughnut! There are still doughnuts! You could have another! Doughnuts are over there. Doughnuts. DOUGHNUTS! EAT THE FUCKING DOUGHNUTS!

And the thing is, I don’t love doughnuts. They’re ok, I don’t mind them, but I don’t love and adore them to the point that my brain is obsessing over them and yet I can’t shift the attention away from them.

That’s not even a superficial example. I would find it hard to concentrate on the meeting because I would be distracted by the existence of doughnuts, wherever they were in room. Even though I don’t love them.

With Mounjaro, someone puts the box of doughnuts in front of me and I don’t care. They’re silent. I can ignore them. And my brain won’t be constantly obsessing about the bloody doughnuts.

I had never previously given it any thought until watching a film on youtube last month, which led me to reading some more....and it definitely is something that unless you have experienced it, people will be largely ignorant of.

What i do think is a good thing is that the dialogue surrounding weight related problems is changing. Only a few years ago the mindset on MN was far harsher and less open. People are really discussing it and sharing awareness now, and that can only be a plus for us all (and our future kids, etc), culturally speaking.
It's hardly a minority issue after all.

I think it is important to question the safety of new drugs and to keep discussions open, whilst having zero tolerance for outdated, rude and ignorant perceptions.
I dislike the concept of health being correlated with 'hard work'.
Why on earth should a solution to a culture-wide issue have to... hurt?

I have been on Mounjaro for 10 months now, I have lost 2 stone.
I have read a lot online about people mocking ‘food noise’ as not a thing.
I restricted calories and worked out like a maniac, but the weight just kept piling on.

I grew up with the emotional connection to food, all my memories involve the big farmhouse table and mum/gran baking or knocking out a 3 course dinner. I eat very well but I was thin and I don’t ever remember feeling hungry.

As I got older my hormones very much took over, I got massive cravings as my levels went up and down. As I hit perimenopause in my late 30s, it became almost uncontrollable. I was HANGRY. I would be upset and couldn’t concentrate if I was, for example, past 7am breakfast time.

I was eating plenty, lots of protein and fruit & veg. All the advice said I should be ‘full’, ‘well sated’, ’lasting until lunchtime’. I was not. I was miserable and nothing filled me up. I tried a diet, hired a nutritionist, worked out with a PT, got meals delivered and drank litres of water.

It just did not work.

I took my first injection on a Friday night, by Saturday lunchtime the noise was gone. I now struggle to eat my calories. It’s helped my mental health, with the weight loss being a bonus. I’m delighted my weight stopped climbing as my BMI was 30+ and we have a lot of cancer and heart disease in the family.

Honestly, i think everything you say makes sense in light of what is emerging. The thinking around weight loss is changing, as are medications. As with all new things, there are some that will drag their feet and rail against it. People love to predict failure and negative outcomes, that's the internet for you.

What is good news is that the medical world are on board, and not just for the 'money' as the nay sayers might like to believe. And it's discussions such as this that will eventually become the norm - no more shaming people and banishing their experience to the shadows.

A great thread on reddit below for anyone who is interested. Please don't be put off by the title! The discussion is amongst medical professionals who share their views and some patient stories (almost all successful) about the new medications for weight loss.

Issues with the drugs may very well pop up, but I bet they'll get ironed out pretty quickly.

www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/1god90g/do_you_think_glp1_drugs_are_creating_a_bad/

The surgeon I saw last week for something unrelated was not on board about food noise being a thing.

I got some stern questions about using it when I ‘work out so much’ and ‘you’re not that overweight’.

He made his feelings quite clear on WLI and I didn’t have the mental capacity to argue with him at the time.

To me,food noise is my brain not shutting up about a packet of biscuits in the cupboard or a packet of crisps until I eat them 😔