Summer holidays should be longer

[noblegiraffe]

Our kids have the shortest summer holidays in Europe, Italy have 13 weeks, even Ireland has 9.

They're under pressure so much at school they need more time to just be kids. Classrooms are so hot in the last few weeks of term that it's impossible to learn effectively anyway.

I think we should add at least an extra two weeks to the summer holidays, so break up near the start of July. This would bring us more into line with private schools too.

And with longer holidays it might help recruit and retain teachers, and reduce competition for summer annual leave slots for working parents. It could even reduce the cost of holidays as 'peak season' would be longer.

My DCs' school is closer to this pattern, and they appreciate it (particularly as they're ND and find school mentally draining)

They'll have 5 weeks over the summer which is enough for a reset. We strategically go away in the middle which gives time to unwind, breaks the break up, then time at home again.

They're in their teens and just want to vegetate now with little interest in structured activities, and even they recognise that 6 weeks is too long for them.

They enjoy the longer recharge time in Oct and Feb which breaks the two long, sloggy, germy wintery terms up better.
There is the shorter Easter break, but with Whitsun it's still broken up and tends to be an easier time of year.

This model works better for us than the standard English structure, although comes with the caveat that we can afford winter sun (which is priced favourably against summer peak season)

God thats a long time ago. I think she was with my dad at that stage and she gave up work for one year.

Then she went back to work, and i think she put us with a summer childminder for a while

That’s the same half terms as England then. Do you get a May half term?

In northern Italy for childcare there are council run play schemes, which run the entire summer and which are only accessible if both parents working (up here most do!), or similar but more costly private ones, or else church run Oratori, which are run out of a space next to a church and manned by church helpers and unregulated and inexpert teens. But it is cheap (around €20/25 a week plus extra if going on a trip) and runs all day. However, it only runs to mid July. Thereafter relatives are roped in where possible, if not there are childcare swaps or you pay a babysitter.

in Italy it’s 13 weeks because:

• we have no half terms
• Easter holidays are only 4 days long
• Christmas is a bit longer as we have epiphany here but we break up very late in December
• it’s too bloody hot to sit in a classroom from June onwards and there is a national aversion to air conditioning

I would much rather holiday was split throughout the year, 13 weeks is interminable. But then we’d still have issue of the heat.

I feel torn on this issue.

From a selfish point of view, my 2 Autistic children would most definitely benefit from breaking up for summer a couple of weeks earlier. By the time we get to the end of the school year they are completely wrecked. The first week of the holidays is usually a write off as they're exhausted.

I work in a school and many children do not cope well with the heat, the last couple of weeks of school this year they were sweaty, tired and bursting into tears and falling out with each other at the drop of a hat. Very little learning happens once the temperature goes above 25°. Most school buildings aren't designed for hot weather and there is absolutely no money to improve this. I can see why schools in other countries break up earlier before the weather gets really warm.

On the other hand, there are children I worry about over the summer break. For some children school is their safe place and their school adults are the only adults in their lives who give a shit. Extending the school holidays would not be in those children's best interests.

I would question the accuracy of this chart since the Netherlands do not have 8 weeks of summer holidays, they only have 6. Although when I first moved here 20 years ago secondary used to have 7 weeks holiday but that is long gone.

They do get 2 weeks in April/May but no separate break for Easter (even Good Friday is not a bank holiday in NL) or end of May bank holiday.

In fact Dutch schools have 12 weeks of holiday over the whole year, 1 week less than UK state system. Secondary students do tend to get more non-teaching days though.

Oh no no no!

Feb and Oct are both fab, and long terms very unhealthy for kids. The wait from Christmas to Easter would be sooo long.

Irish here, most kids do summer camps throughout the summer. They can range from €80-€200 for the week depending on what the camp is and the hours they provide. I personally have 5 weeks holidays and then I can take unpaid parental leave. Some people use grandparents and family, or childminders/crèche throughout the summer too.

My kids are in private so get long holidays. I spend my money on fees and could never afford to put them in clubs and camps (that they didn't want to go to anyway) - I imagine most parents don't have the funds available to cover the cost of holiday clubs and the timings are always awkward and inconvenient. Mine are entertaining themselves while I work from home, mostly on screens or going to the park with friends. It was much trickier through primary.

I agree that if good quality and affordable options were available, it would be best for children. But there are kids who seriously decline over the six weeks, kids who don't get fed properly without a school dinner - the awful things we saw in lockdown when some children were off the radar of adults who could spot safeguarding issues. I don't think schools are currently run for the benefit of children, teachers or parents; I think the system doesn't work and that's reflected in how unhappy the UK's children appear to be. I don't think extending the holidays is a solution in itself.

People also always ignore that the whole of the UK doesn’t have 6 weeks.

NI have 8 week long summers.

I can only speak for Sweden but we get 10 weeks in the summer, 1 week end of October/early November, 2 weeks over Christmas, 1 week end of Feb/early Mar, 1 week easter + the same amount of bank holidays as the UK, but different dates.

Adults get a minimum of 5 weeks off a year + bank holidays, but most people these days get 6 or 7 weeks off. Childcare is quite cheap though. Summer holiday club at school where I live (Stockholm) is £90/month for the first child, £40/month for second and third child and if you have more than 3 the other children are free. That is including lunches and snacks and they are open normal hours, so roughly 8-6 I think but it's based on the needs of the parents.

In France the kids are shipped off to live with grandparents over the summer.

I live in a town where there are virtually no summer camps. People on here always wang on about putting your kids in for the summer but they aren’t provided universally.
DD went to the odd one but they were often part days so absolutely no use to going to work anyway. They also might only be once a week or for 3 days only. The onlt ones I see that go on for more than a few days are football and tennis.
DD is also ASD and getting her to go to these things with strange kids and strange adults were a nightmare.

when my friend moved back to Belfast she said there was loads run by churches and she just moved her DC from one to another to cover the holidays. Here she had to take unpaid leave.
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I remember a few years ago one of the local primary schools here decided to have 2 weeks at October half term and shorten summer to 5 weeks. It caused uproar (I worked with a lot of parents who had DC there).

The weather is so poor in October that they were stuck at home or having to fork out for activities indoors. I worked in an educational setting at the time, but even parents who were TTO only had a week off as there was only this 1 school that had 2 weeks.

Didn't help that the primary school was a Catholic one and was a feeder for the local Catholic high school so lots of parents had DC at both. Couldn’t even get a cheap deal on a holiday, unless it was Saturday-Saturday as the high school kids were only off for a week.

It only happened once!

Unfortunately there are many children who are better off in school, longer holidays would not be good for mental, physical and emotional health.

Summer camps, family help, dividing annual leave, stay at home parents, shorter working year in the civil service where you can take unpaid extra leave etc. It's a struggle but I wouldn't change it, I loved the long holidays as a child and liked my DS having the same experience. It's 3 months in secondary, June, July and August.

You’re not comparing like with like. Italy doesn’t have half terms, and just has a week for Easter. It’s also not unusual for schools to run on Saturdays, and have 6 very short school days. I doubt anyone would prefer to move to that, just for the 13 week summer. It’s just a completely different set up.

Don't the countries with longer summer holidays not have half terms though? Italy in particular doesn't have the 3 half term weeks the UK does and has shorter off for Easter.

If you are going to compare you need to compare the whole holidays from school not just one block. The UK still gets less but alot less disparity than the chart initially suggests.

I don't understand this, why are children forgetting things during holidays. What are the parents doing? Surely you do some learning with your kids? Reading etc?

I think the school year needs balancing out better, so shorter summer holiday and longer breaks for Whit week and Autumn break.

But 13 weeks off in summer? Yikes.

My DS only gets 5 weeks and an extra week on October half term which is totally useless - we can't go on a family holiday as I'm busy at work and DD doesn't have that week. But it just means an extra week of finding childcare.
At least the summer week he's in school is a week when there are clubs for DD.
This isn't a problem any more as DH is retired and DD is going into secondary so she'd rather see friends and do things with just DH but it was tricky for a couple of years.
Can't imagine what an even longer summer holiday would be like. In the US all the summer camps (childcare type rather than Scouts type) are full by February.

I do kind of see you point with some of it!

But I also think working people in general should have more annual leave (not just parents) which would help cover it.

I’ve always just thought we should align to the Scottish holidays, so that the kids are off when it’s actually hot, not when it practically feels like autumn. Same length (ish) but sooner.

And I’d break them up earlier in December so you don’t have those awful weeks of constant illness - usually leaving them ill for Christmas.

So on balance I think I disagree with the longer summer as I’d give more time off in the winter instead. I do see your arguments though.

I’m also not convinced the govt couldn’t legislate for the holiday companies and peak times - I’m sure you could say no holiday should cost more than x times (x being something very low like 1.1) what it did the week before/ after, and word it in some way that worked. Yes there would be a week mid summer hols when the price was steeper but overall it would even things out. Better for teachers too!

I do think over the summer there should some primary schools open for play-schemes or day camps that are low cost/free.
The current range of childcare "camps" are often very specific theme based (football, theatre etc) and sometimes a franchise so they are expensive because they are a business.
There should be day camps that are part state funded, part low cost (free to those in certain circumstances) available in schools.
They could even be for up to age 14 (so Year 9) and those 14+ could sign up to be junior play leaders so those that don't want to leave the secondary age kids home alone can have somewhere safe they can be.

The long summer holiday is an anachronism and goes back to the days when children used to be out in the fields (sometimes with both parents) helping to get in the harvest.

Sorry but its a well known fact the six weeks hoildays is part of the reason people are pulled into teaching. I have many friends who are teachers and work in nurseries and said that the 6 weeks is a massive perk and theyd probably change jobs if the summer was dropped to lesser weeks.