to think this new arrangement re bus fares is unfair?

[EmotionallyWeird]

I live in an area where most of the buses are operated by Stagecoach. For the last few years (since I started my current job which is too far to walk) I've bought a monthly travel card. At first it was a physical piece of cardboard and you had to get a new one every month, then it became a smart card (which looks like a debit card) which you had to top up online.

Today I found out that the system is changing again and when my current top-up expires, it will only be possible to buy an in-app version of the weekly or monthly cards, which you have to show on your phone. This doesn't really affect me as I can cope with the change, although I would rather it had stayed the same. But not everybody wants to carry a phone all the time, not everybody has a smartphone, and not everybody who has one has their own data - some just use WiFi when they can get on it (which you can't on the buses in this area). Does anyone else think that making this new system compulsory is rather unfair, as it will force some people to make a lifestyle change they might not otherwise have wanted to (or pay more for their travel by buying single or day tickets)?

The OP was talking about a monthly pass in one particular area. Presumably if your sister lived in that area and had a monthly bus pass, she'd either have to get a smartphone or pay individually.

It's not about elderly people who will have a physical card

We've had the digital Stagecoach monthly weekly passes for a while here. My DS had one for school travel, and got caught out a few times when his phone battery died, or he didn't have the data to activate his pass. For all the discussion of the possible harms of smartphones for children, issues like this mean they need them for day to day travel.

The bus passes for pensioners and people with disabilities are a different system administered by the local authority not the bus companies and continue to be a physical photo card.

Despite what OP claims, this switch is also being done gradually. All that's changing is that the smart cards themselves can no longer be purchased (but they can still be topped up) on a bus.

No, it’s not the same because not having a TV doesn’t stop you from using the bus, paying for goods etc.

The vast majority will have smartphones, I’d have thought, and any older people who don’t will surely have bus passes anyway. I can see that it’d be a problem for anyone blind or partially sighted, though, or who has difficulty because of e.g. arthritis with using their hands.
Around here TBH virtually everyone except bus passes oldies (like me) pays for the bus via their phone.

I made the mistake of buying a digital only disability railcard. I discovered that it regularly needs reactivating to be valid (even though it's a 3 year railcard) and that it is impossible to do this without a good wifi/ data signal. You can't screenshot the card either (a security feature). Now I know, I can make sure it's activated before I leave home if it's a planned rail journey. But it's more complicated when I've been away - and there are still plenty of areas of the UK with limited 4G/ mobile reception.

Nearly everyone owned a TV back when the switchover happened. The majority of people don't travel by bus, or do so rarely. Anyway, as I mentioned above, the smart cards are not being discontinued at all, OP has misunderstood what's happening.

This kind of thing gives me the absolute rage.
Some people genuinely don’t have the imagination to realise that forcing the population to carry about a tiny computer as though it were an appendage is a bad idea.
Its also really ageist and ableist to shrug off the concerns of thousands of people by saying “ tech moves on, they ought to learn”
Things change in life. I adopted tech really early. I worked in it for a time, when most people had dial up I have a high speed internet connection blah de blah.
Ive gone totally the other way now, and I can see how this total dependency on phones and the internet is damaging society.
I hate apps, hate fiddling with my phone, hate passwords and two factor authentication. I had several rounds of chemotherapy which made me much more foggy and forgetful, so yes, my phone might die and I wasn’t with it enough to remember my charger.
My eyes are now shit and if I don’t have my reading glasses I can’t read anything on my phone anyway.
Many people have sight issues, or dexterity problems- and if they don’t now they very well might in the future…
Kids are being encouraged to leave smart phones at home ( which is great) and that should be supported.

We are sleepwalking into utter slavery to theses devices. I very often leave the house without my phone and I want to be able to always do that.

The majority of people don't travel by bus, or do so rarely
???Even if that were true, the majority of people who DO use buses daily are more likely to be poorer, thus also being more likely to have a shit phone battery or to be unable to replace a defunct phone right away. I know, I’ve been there.

It is true and, again, it doesn’t matter, because the smart cards are not, in fact, being discontinued or withdrawn.

Nothing to do with fashion. It’s how most people under about 60 go about life. I don’t take much out now because it’s all on my phone

no cash, debit or credit cards. No loyalty cards. It’s so easy. I rarely need a bag. Just my phone and keys

MN People need to get into the modern world Everyone has a smartphone
Also MN Kids should leave their smartphones at home

I was behind someone once in a cafe who had to leave their tray of food behind because the phone didn't work to pay, they had nothing else to pay with

If they don’t feel the need for it, then they aren’t the people you are talking about. If they took the bus, they (might) feel a need for it, although I’m not convinced you need data to use these apps.

This call of “but what about people without smartphones?” What about them? The number of them will be incredibly low. My parents and MIL are late 70s and in their 80s and have smartphones. Non smart phones are hard to find these days. The current generations of older people are quite tech savvy. If someone wants to choose not to join the digital world, they have to accept they will be excluded. It’s funny when I hear people complaining about companies using these methods it’s always “I can do it but what about….?” Actual complaints from people who can’t manage it are rare.

Stagecoach will have done their research and discovered how few people are using physical cards and how much it is costing them to produce them. They can keep the cards and raise the fares, would you be happy with that?

Agree. It is unfair.

Most people won't suffer, but the most vulnerable are most likely to.

No one will suffer. The smart cards are not being discontinued or withdrawn.

This. Poor and vulnerable people have to use public transport and it should be accessible to them. Steps like this can make it inaccessible.

I also hate using my phone for tickets etc. so many things can go wrong, it makes me really nervous. Technology is great until it doesn’t work which seems to happen at least 5% of the time. A paper or card ticket is very unlikely to go wrong. Undoubtedly when the technology does go wrong it will only inconvenience or cause issues for the passenger and never the company! More and more of these “improvements” are being brought in, purely for the benefit of the company involved and often to the disadvantage of the consumer.

Sorry I'm totally missing the point of the thread here but literally what is the point of having a mobile phone that you don't take out of the house because it's too big? That just seems utterly nonsensical, especially considering how much you probably paid for it.

All that's changing is that the smart cards themselves can no longer be purchased (but they can still be topped up) on a bus.

In your region, maybe. I didn't even know you could top the cards up on a bus - I'd always done it on the computer - but the driver yesterday specifically told me that from now on those cards could not be topped up at all and you could only buy the longer-period tickets through the app. I suppose it's possible he was wrong, but that's what he said.

It’s funny when I hear people complaining about companies using these methods it’s always “I can do it but what about….?” Actual complaints from people who can’t manage it are rare.

Two thoughts on that. We had someone upthread who had limited use of one arm and would struggle not intellectually but physically, and she can't be the only one. But also, anyone who would struggle intellectually would probably find getting through to anybody to make a complaint a minefield. I had a lost property query last year and didn't find the online form at all intuitive, and I'm not usually baffled by bureaucracy.

I’m just going by the information on Stagecoach’s website. I just started the purchase process for an annual ticket in Glasgow, and was offered the option to add it to a smart card. So, it seems very likely that the driver was wrong, and there is no need for all the handwringing on this thread.

In a world where we are realising that smartphones are detrimental to mental health we shouldn't be creating barriers to having a smartphone free life

An option to have a digital card is OK. Only having a digital card is problematic.

I live in an area which has had digital passes (day, week, month, student) since about 2020. You don’t need data to bring up the QR code and they take contactless and cash as well for irregular bus users. Over 65s have a physical card that they scan without any problems and IME the bus driver will wave past or come out of his cab to help disabled passengers.
They have phased out smart cards here too but the machines are still at popular stops months later.

It’s funny when I hear people complaining about companies using these methods it’s always “I can do it but what about….?” Actual complaints from people who can’t manage it are rare.

People making these comments on forums like this? Probably on their smartphones or tablets? Not sure too many of the non smartphone savvy 80 year olds are in the same forums you are. My 88 yr old MIL is great with a smartphone at home, when sitting down comfortably. She can send photos on WhatsApp, check the weather and news. She can even order her weekly shop online on an old laptop used only for that purpose. But outside of these few things, she doesn’t use it much. She’s particularly wary about doing anything financial on the smartphone. She’s definitely not coming into forums to chat about how she would find this app difficult to use. But I know she would find something like this too hard.

I don't know how tavelcards work but I just take screenshots of all my loyalty badcodes/QR and have an albulm of them quick to hand so I never need data could people do that....

That's pretty unusual though, bus companies can't run systems that cover every individual circumstance, that would be unworkable. As an adult you make the choice of carrying your phone or not getting a bus, I do t think that's at all unreasonable