To find it sad young women are so ageist towards older women

[ThatNimblePeer]

My job involves quite a lot of mentoring of younger colleagues, often women. I’m in my early 40s and they will typically be mid-late 20s. In general I get on well with them and enjoy the mentoring and the conversation, sometimes we’ll become friends and go for coffee. They’re definitely not intentionally being rude, but I find it very striking how many unthinkingly ageist comments towards older women they will make to me when we’re chatting in a more informal way, e.g. criticising or laughing at women in the public eye because they look too ‘old’ or supposedly aren’t looking as good as they used to (e.g. actresses), or with one we got talking about the word ‘spinster’ and how it’s still seen as so negative and she said she thought it was because people associate it with old women (so, obviously awful then!) Tbh I can remember having some of those biases myself at that age, but I feel embarrassed by them now, and I sort of thought this generation of women was seen as more consciously feminist and aware of not putting down other women. I think that’s maybe filtered through in terms of not being unnecessarily competitive with women their own age, but it seems very clear that it hasn’t filtered through to some of their attitudes about older women. I find it sad, not least because it just doesn’t seem to occur to them that they will ‘become’ those older women in the not too distant future, and very much won’t enjoy being written off when that happens. Sometimes I try to gently point that out to them, but I don’t really want to give them a lecture, and tbh it is surprising to me that intelligent young women can’t figure that out for themselves.

AIBU to think that a lot of young women still have pretty unreconstructed attitudes to older women, and to find that surprising and sad in this generation?

There’s a lot of ageism about that’s for sure.

And I think the negativity towards older women has always been there to a degree, (drowning witches etc) but it’s now been fuelled even more by the increase in on-line misogyny on social media, where women are only seen as sexual objects or someone to serve men in a domestic setting. And I think that some young women have internalised it unfortunately because it’s so ubiquitous.

It’s quite scary actually. The use of the name Karen as an insult is one tiny part but it goes a lot deeper and darker than that unfortunately.

And the obsession about youthful looks and Botox and make-up, purely driven by commerce, starts on TikTok at such a young age. It’s a form of indoctrination.

Where the hell did it all go so wrong? 😪

IKWYM. Hard to generalise but you’re right there are some trends. Young women often can be overly fixated on essentially being a decoration. So just judging others by that standard. It’ll not occur to them that by time they’re our age with any luck they won’t care. Plus looks fade for everyone so daft to berate folk for it.
Read a social history book once on a factory, all the young women who were getting married were confident the heady love stage would last for them, they’d be the exception and they would definitely not be like the older women they worked with. The older ones were hilarious… essentially made the point aye good luck with that, we were you once…we thought that too!
+They do say too to be old and wise, we first need to be young and daft. Finding being in 40s and not GAF about aging (better than the alternative!) great so feel a bit sorry for them as don’t miss those years personally.

Well, as you say, when you were their age, you espoused much the same views!

As the old saying goes, you can't put an old head on young shoulders.

It can twinge a bit when you become a part of the demographic you so casually dismissed, particularly when you hear young ones doing the same!

(I'm mid fifties by the way. . .)

I had an ex colleague who hated ‘ old people’ in general, but maybe these young bucks will change their minds when they reach their 50s op.
Ageism has always been around though and probably worse now as everyone thinks ‘ boomers’ are all rich and living it up. Many are not.

I’m 64. When I was in my 20s, in the 80s, there was a much clearer dividing line between young and old. 40 is young now but back then it was considered past it and dressing too young had to be guarded against. I’m glad things have changed in this regard.

I think my ageism in my 20s was a bit more subliminal than theirs, tbh. I didn’t like the thought of getting older myself, but I definitely never would have been rude about another woman’s appearance.

Totally agree with the PP’s point, that they probably assume they’ll always care as much about appearance as they do now, and don’t realise one of the pleasures of getting older is that you don’t… I might try pointing that out to them…

I like seeing much older woman than me ( I’m nearly 60) dressing in younger clothes and trendy trainers and whatever they want to. In the 80s women really didn’t do this as much but im glad things have changed!

I work very closely with a woman 16 years younger than me and she says things like "older women - I don't mean you - can't use computers" (as an example, but she says this a lot, with the special exemption for me because I regularly have to show her how to do specific things using not only work IT systems but also certain aspects of Outlook and MS Office 😂). I'm also a foreigner, though with citizenship, and she also says "foreigners - I don't mean you -" followed by random unfounded generalisations at least once per week.

Both the ageism and the xenophobia are very similar indeed in her case (her ageism only applies to women, she never mentions the inadequacy of older men and idolises her father).

However she also says "Men can't see mess unless women point it put" and nonsense like that.

My own daughter is 20 and doesn't say anything negative about older women in my hearing... but then I guess she has more sense. I like to believe she doesn't have those attitudes.

I'm not sure whether a whole generation of women think a certain way, I suspect it's more likely to be the ones who don't engage their brains about whether widely held prejudices 1) are actually founded in fact on a universal level 2) are appropriate things to focus on for Smalltalk - eg. judging someone's looks negatively.

YANBU, but unfortunately the adage that women are not as competitive as men is completely untrue- rather the opposite in my experience.
What is most worrying is that youth and looks are seen as the only effective weapons- everyone's looks fade , in their late 20's these women's looks are fading far faster than yours. i would tend to cut them some slack, it's sad they see the world this way- but they will discover the truth soon enough.
I am just glad I didn't have to compete with easily available porn images , because I'm too old.

I just say 'ageist' every time. They shut up immediately, as they are so hyperwoke about other slurs.

I have seen teen girls laugh at me in the street presumably simply for being old or daring to wear clothes they think I look ridiculous in. I don't care though, and I am sure I did the same at their age. Their opinion of me doesn't matter.

And lets be honest - we judge them too - those furry eyelashes and massive scouse brows, the bright orange fake tan, the translucent flesh coloured leggings with those weird puckered gatherings at the back that look like a cat's rear end. Or when they do inane running commentaries in public: 'So I'm like, "OMG!!!" And he's like, "listen babe..."'

People judge others. Human nature. We have just learned to keep schtum. They are still naive enough to say what they're thinking.

We were all daft once, to a certain degree. Mysogyny is alive and well, these girls grew up with it just like we did.

I'm 41, I work with people in their 20s and I have never experienced this.

Oh I'd have to say something to her. I am a bit gobby though. How do you stand it?

I think all the generations judge one another harshly.

I remember once working in a large corporate that invested massively in promoting a positive, diverse, equal environment. For the most part we did it well.

I was mid thirties and had lost interest in pubs and drinking so I didn't go on many of the nights out, I sometimes came for an hour to be sociable but then left before it became messy. By all accounts the nights were very messy. The nights out often seemed to have younger women and older men.

One of the women was called Melissa and she was incredibly beautiful. She went on nights out a lot. I had only worked with her on the occasional project and always found her pleasant.

Another young woman Kelley also socialised a lot. I found her quite lazy and unprofessional when I worked on projects with her. One day we were in a glass meeting room when beautiful Melissa walked by. Kelley went on a tirade about her being attention seeking, two faced etc. I, irritated slightly tried to change the subject but she persisted saying I didn't know Melissa. I said no I don't know her except for a few projects and she hasn't caused me any problems. A lengthy story began about a night out, I stopped her and said I wouldn't know anything about those, I'm older - I was about to say I don't stay past 9 o'clock but Kelley cut in and said "oh yes that's why she's nice to you then." Confused I asked her what she meant (I stupidly thought she was suggesting I was being sucked up to as more senior) but with a completely straight face she continued "you're older so you are no threat to her. I am pretty and she doesn't like it when I get attention."

I'm not saying it wasn't true but thought such an unnecessarily nasty thing to say.

Hmm, if you're mentoring women in their early 20s if consider it to be a maturity thing in general as opposed to a female thing.

I definitely experience ageism at work - from women 55+ against women 30-40. Including prejudiced comments about pregnancy and mat leave. The men of all ages were a lot more sympathetic and supportive, as were colleagues of 45 and younger of both sexes.

Aging is the one thing that happens to us all at exactly the same rate. I think a bit of sniping between generations will always be with us.

I make comments about the ridiculousness of some garments that young people wear. I make comments about their attitudes. The difference is that I do it internally, so I don’t offend, unless someone is deliberately rude, then I’d respond.

Age, experience and wisdom is not valued. What is forgotten is that someday, if they are fortunate, these people who are so rude and inflexible, will become the people they’re so critical of.

As mentioned in my original post, the women are mid-late 20s.

Say:

'Remember, friend, as you pass by
As you are now, so once was I;
As I am now, so you will be -
Prepare yourself to follow me'.

It used to be a memento mori on gravestones, but it's a shot across the bows for the little whippersnappers too... 😄

(Having said that, I can remember when I was young and had no intention of 'letting myself go' like those older women... 🙄 But you couldn't have told me anything then - life had to kick my arse for me in its own time...).

Hmmm I've worked with a lot of young people in a university setting and that is definitely not typical. Its the kind of thinking I would associate with the uneducated, people who lack critical thinking skills, world view, and experience. Sadly its says a lot more about them than anything else. What profession is it?

Ageism has always existed but people would never be so rude as to say anything. We have lost respect.

Now that older people are fitter, have greater access to clothes and financially secure you will find it is down to plain and simple jealousy from those who have not got their act together and are not prepared to put in the effort. Age is the easiest thing for them to knock to try to feel good about themselves.

Zombie thread! 💀

I do agree though. But I really only see it on Mumsnet. Not in real life. Younger women I know are nice/lovely to me (mid 50s.)

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Yanbu, ageism is a prejudice of the young against anyone middle aged or older. Young women and men will be ageist. It’s one of the “isms” that are a blight on human societies. I like the poster that said you can’t put a wise head on young shoulders, because this is so true. Many young people will have focused on or been specifically taught about racism, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism but ageism and ableism do not get the same attention. Usually they don’t get it until they’re around 28 and get called an ageist term by a 16yr old one day on the metro.

It’s disappointing that not much progress has been made fighting ageism and it seems many parts of the world are actively regressing on the other ‘isms’

Thank you. I didn’t even notice 😅
zombie thread.

Where did you see it? It hadn't been posted on for 7-8 months. I wonder how people come across these older threads. 😃