What do I do about daughters friendship :( I’m a lost

[Timegoestoofast]

Hi so I’m going to try and give as much background as possible and change names.

my daughter Emily is in year 6 and her best friend Katie is in year 7 at different schools.

they have known eachother since they was 2-3 years old due to sharing the same medical conditions.

I am good friends with Katie’s mum as we have seen eachother through a lot. things have become quite unbearable though.

emily is autistic and it is expected that her friend is autistic but has not been through any diagnostic assessment.
Emily is really passive, shy quiet girl who really struggles to say no.
Katie is far more outspoken and has always been on the slightly bossy side.
fhe last year Katie has turned quite mean to Emily- many fall outs and upsets over comments she will make. Calling Emily names and things like I won’t talk to you again if you don’t do Y X and Z.

I have raised this with Katie’s mum who often basically just said Emily is too sensitive she needs to toughen up - we have to deal with Katie at home all the time and laughs it off. Or will say “ oh you have your work cut out with Emily she too hormonal “ things like this.

the girls have been through a lot together and spoke to Emily originally about making choices of friends and not having to stay friends with people but she ultimately decided to stay friends with her.

ages ago before this all really kicked off we booked tickets to an event and Katie’s mum had offered to take the girls and the girls were really excited. I felt okay with her going as things seemed to have settled down and usually it isn’t in parents eat shot when things occur.

well during the car journey Emily text me asking me
“ is my outfit really bad mum “

I replied “ you look beautiful “

“ Katie keeps saying I look ugly and they should of left me behind “

a few minutes past and we were back and forth messaging and I asked her if she wanted me to collect her

she said “ no but I might have some bruises tomorrow “

I obviously questioned what was going on and she did she just keeps hitting me even when I tell her to stop.

I asked her if Katie’s mum has intervened and she no hasn’t told her off.

I managed to organise Emily being collected so she didn’t need to travel the long journey back in the car.

anyway I have tried to Katie’s mum again and all I get again is it’s my issue to sort with Emily and I neee to just explain to Emily that Katie can’t control her behavior we just have to accept it.

I feel awful but at this point do I step in and cut the friendship despite knowing that she’s may have autism and my daughter also having autism so I should be more accepting ?

sorry for title error.

autism is not the condition they share. They have a rare condition that landed them growing up together in a ward

Why is Katie being autistic as excuse for her to be allowed to continue hurting your dd? She’s got enough going on without this. I would’ve stepped in ages ago and Emily would be busy doing something fun anytime Katie wanted to hang out. You sound like you’re concerned about your friendship with the mum, too.
Yes many autistic people struggle socially. However she’s so much better off safe and happy than having someone who treats her so badly in her life. Step in and protect her. You should’ve done that a while ago.
She needs to understand even more what a healthy relationship is. You facilitating this friendship is definitely not helping.

I have stepped in but I was concerned about demanding her to not speak to her when she clearly steal really wanted to
i have tried multiple ways but it has failed so now I’m thinking I don’t have much choose to “ ban “ the relationship.
we have spoken about positive relationships, how she feels, how she should be treated.
I have rang the mum when needed.
i now know I need to take the next step.
the girls relationship has always been close than me and Katie’s mum.

I would be talking to your daugtehr about what we look for in friends. Make lists together. Then ask if she thinks Katie fits this.
min sorry but you need to teach your girl that it’s ok to set boundaries and that friends don’t treat friends like that

We have had mutiple conversations and mutiple attempts at this. The only thing I can now do is to say no more and ban the friendship. Then hope she realises how much better it is

I think your daughter needs guidance with this friendship. You can see how negative it is but she’s a child and still thinks all of it is okay because Katie is her best friend. It’s now up to you to encourage your dd to seek out better friends, do fun things and discourage her from the friendship with Katie.

I understand it will be hard due to shared medical history but that’s not a reason to remain friends with someone who is unkind.

It also sounds like Katie’s mum sees your dd as the one with the issues regarding the friendship.

Katie doesn't sound a very nice child. I appreciate children with Autism see the world differently, but Katie is Year 7 (presumably going into Year 8 in September), and therefore knows right from wrong. She's deliberately saying unkind things to your daughter, making her doubt herself and lowering her self-esteem. On top of that, Katie is physically hitting Emily, so it's not just verbal anymore. Katie's Mum is useless, sorry but she is - Katie's behaviour may be difficult at times, but sitting back and allowing her daughter to verbally and physically abuse another child, is awful. Personally, I would be explaining to your daughter that it's OK to step back from a friendship, especially one that's making her sad and unhappy. I think the friendship has run it's course, and the girls have grown apart, which is common at this age. I would be encouraging new friendships, and become unavailable if Katie should wish to see Emily.

I think you have two choices really. Either you stop your daughter from spending time with Kate, or you make sure you're present to make sure your daughter is ok.

If you choose to continue supporting the friendship, you need to have a frank conversation with Kate's mum. I'd make it clear that your daughter is too young to be expected to deal with Kate's mean behaviour by herself (regardless of whether she can help it). Let her know that you will step in if she doesn't.

Oh goodness, horrid situation,
you are going to have to role model to your DD what to do when a friend is actually a frenemy -
say a real friend isn’t mean / horrid / hits you etc etc …
frenemies seem like friends sometimes and then are enemies at other times and when this happens we can decide that we don’t want to be with a frenemy because we are more worthy / important than that -
as a mum you can say I’m not going to let you play with someone who is t treating you properly and it is important that you make new friends who know how to behave / treat you as the person you deserve to be treated as
it’s really crucial that you don’t convey the message that it OK to be treated like shit … what about when she is older ? In new situations ? Has a boyfriend ?
now is a good time to educate her about her self worth and how she does not deserve to be treated badly and when that happens it is time to move on
there are books for kids navigating frenemies

You're trying to fix a relationship where your daughter was told she was an embarrassment who should have been left behind and then hit?

FFS. There is no relationship, your daughter is just a punching bag, poor thing.

Your situation reminded me so much of a situation DS with ASD had. He had a friend who was very aggressive which was one thing but more worryingly he also had a streak of cause and effect where he loved to see people’s behaviour if he provoked them negatively. I was great friends with his mother who was completely oblivious to his serious emerging issues.

We completely pulled back and it has been absolutely for the best for my son. For me the final straw was a birthday party for my son with 7 kids with ASD, some pretty severely affected and when I turned my back on this lad while his mother was watching on he was hurting other kids with a stick he was playing with. There was real malice in what he was doing.

One of the kids stormed off through my house and I went to speak to him about it because obviously he was very upset and he said the thing that really rattled me.

We all have ASD here, we all struggle but his behaviour is different he is doing something none of the rest of us do. He is hurting other children for his own fun. That was a complete turning point for me and I realised that this child’s struggle with ASD was not going to excuse this type of antisocial behaviour I had seen much evidence of and that his mother constantly smoothed over.

I see a lot of the same situation in what you have described. You are ending up smoothing over very harmful behaviour and your daughter is learning from that.

I would reduce the time they spend together, only allow Katie over if you can be present - and tell her I’d she’s rude or abusive.

can they also not FaceTime each other, so when Emily says she misses Katie get them to FT

my dd was best friends with the neighbours dd who was a year older from 4 upwards, neighbours dd became a nightmare at that age, she thought she was so much older and looked down on dd - fortunately this coincided with us moving, so I didn’t have her round anymore and they’re still friendly now in their 20s

Cut the friendship, show your daughter that you have her back, that this is not friendship and help her understand boundaries. This will set the tone for future relationships so it's important to get it right now.
She might be sad, it's ok to grieve what she's lost, but she doesn't have it now, she gains nothing by staying in this toxic relationship.

I would shut this down completely. It's usually best to just guide them into good decisions but there are still occasions where you have to override them and this sounds like one of them.

@Timegoestoofast so sorry your daughter is going through this. Both my girls are younger but both autistic and it does add so much complexity. My youngest can be very fixed “this is my best friend” mindset even if they’ve drifted apart and has very rigid beliefs on what that means. She also is PDA which makes things more complex. If I outright “banned” a friendship it would backfire but maybe it would work with Emily? Other alternatives I can think of is “strewing” the idea of the friendship ending or also of “distance stories” which you use to explain friendships/ bad friends / how things can change. If you google these ideas the internet will do a better job of explaining. I would do that whilst also preventing them seeing each other by not making plans / cancelling plans with good excuses.

If she can't control Katie's behaviour now, she's going to be a beaten up mother in the future. Very probable.

What does Katie's mum say about the fact that she is hitting younger children? Surely she realises that she needs to stop this, not least for Katie's sake as she could get into big trouble?

Are there any support groups your DD could join to replace part of the connection with Katie? Nd people can recognise each other and drift towards each other, maybe another autistic friend would help. Or connection with others with the shared medical condition. I wouldn't be letting my DC be abused if I could help it. Poor Katie too, being led to believe by her mum that it's ok to be abusive.

Given the girls' conditions and the personalities. I'd be cutting off the relationship now. It's not on that your daughter's being physically hurt.

Your daughter is being bullied and the parent isn't interested so yes I think it's time to intervene. You don't need to make a big thing of it as far as your daughter goes, just always be busy. You've had the conversations with her about what makes a good friend and I would emphasise that Katie is not a good friend but again I wouldn't make a big thing about her not seeing her.

If the mum asks any questions definitely be honest there.

I think rather than worry about being more tolerant of the friend’s behaviour, I’d focus on the vulnerability of your daughter. I think you have enough evidence now to see that this ‘friendship’ could seriously affect your already shy daughter’s self esteem and sense of self. You don’t want her growing up thinking that this is what friendship or love looks like.

I don’t know anything about the friend but I think if she is hurting another child physically or with mean words, the parents still have to support the ‘victim’ and say that the behaviour is wrong. With the ND element. I’m not saying it’s necessarily going to change the behaviour but I think you still have to say it’s wrong/unkind so that anyone involved understands that it’s not acceptable. Laughing it off may be fine as a parent who deals with things day in and day out but you shouldn’t expect a child to do the same.

As hard as it may be, I think you have to take the lead at this point and tell your daughter that when someone is physically hurting them and being mean to them, they must step away from that person. I’m all for letting children sort things out themselves but I think there has to be a moment (at least at primary age) when you step in as a parent and tell them that something is not right and that you need to step back for a while. I would be open with the other parent and say that as positive as some elements of the friendship are, you can’t have your daughter feeling sad because of comments or bruises from being hit. I’m sure your friend would feel similar if the roles were reversed. Alternatively, you could only allow them to hang out when you can supervise but I’d still be honest with the other mum about why that is and that might cause them to step back anyway.

To end on a positive note - your daughter turned to you when she was worried/upset and told you what was going on. That’s huge and shows you’re a brilliant mum.

Yes please do. My daughter is autistic and continued with people treating her badly because she is a loyal friend. But you need to teach Emily boundaries plus she needs to make the space to let a nice friend enter her life

Can I just add though please rather than you cutting the friendship guide Emily to the right choice

It’s just a part of growing up, people drift apart. Girls in particular, drag the growing apart on for months and months and can become increasingly nasty. I see it every single year with Y7 girls.

I think part of the problem now is that parents are far too involved in these disputes and squabbles instead of letting them know it’s a normal part of growing up. Speak to your daughter about growing apart from people and encourage her to spend more time with the other friends, don’t make it into a big deal. You can still be friends with your friend whilst acknowledging the girls have grown apart.

You don't have to tell your daughter you're shutting the friendship down full stop. Could you frame it as 'having a break' for a week /fortnight so she can have a chance to see what life is like without Katie. Then you can talk about, eg I missed having someone to do x with but I didn't miss the unkind words/being hit/being bossed around etc.