To think kids activities provider is unreasonable?!

[Newsagentsfan]

My two children started at a kids extracurricular activity in September. It cost just over £163 per month. It was lot, but they loved the trial, so I sucked in hard and paid. I want to be very fair to the organisation, so I will say there is an option to pay annually (cheapest), monthly direct debit and then month by month (most expensive). I went for monthly direct debit.

There were extras along the way - kit, shoes, contributions to activities in mid second term etc that I didn't realise. Over the year it probably totalled another £200-300. These extras are necessary.

In April, our finances drastically changed as DH's job ended suddenly. We were late with two payments. We struggled through, though we were living in the overdraft constantly, couldn't pay the mortgage, it's the same now. Summer came, and we couldn't really afford ice lollies. Pretty bad.

Summer comes, at the end of term, I email to let them know we are sorry but we cannot return next year (Sept). They respond they are sorry but the contract says we need to cancel before the beginning of the summer term to cancel for winter term (September). I look through the contract, sure enough it is there, buried quite deep into the terms and conditions (maybe 30 paragraphs down).

I email to say please release us, we are literally having trouble feeding the children and have no idea where we will even find money to buy school clothes come September. Please, bear in mind, there are no activities over summer, and the children won't be returning so they are not accruing any costs for the children and they won't be, I can't afford the basics and certainly not the extras which are really not extras. As I type I have £30.52 left in my account for the rest of the month, it's dire.

They respond, they can let us off half, but not all, to be paid over August and September, again, when my children aren't even there. What am I paying for?

I honestly think this is despicable. I cannot believe they have had any outlay for my children for next term, a full two months before anything begins in September. I honestly don't have money to feed the children. They know my children. I understand this is a commercial business, but come on, my circumstances can't change 5 months before September without being tied in from April to December?

I'm sickened, and so upset. I will need to borrow the money. I'd prefer to save that lever for a rainy day, god knows what might come up.

AIBU? There is a contract, but it is onerous. I can't really believe they have known my children for a year and think they are well-positioned to negotiate on what I have told them is food and clothing money.

I've told them I will pay the half, but realistically, I cannot. Like I say, I have £30 to the end of July.

I would be tempted to just not pay them anything. Perhaps get advice from CAB (or maybe you have legal advice on your house insurance?) as to whether this is an illegal contract. You would be relying on them not taking a Small Claims action against you for such a small sum as they're not actually out of pocket - I wouldn't normally encourage someone to not pay their debts but you're absolutely desperate and they sound greedy.

It might be worth citing a bit of contract law at them. I've had some success in the past referencing the case of Interfoto Picture Library Ltd v Stiletto Visual Programmes Ltd, which essentially says that onerous contract terms need a greater degree of notice to be enforceable. So it's no good burying something like that (that you're agreeing to such a long notice period) in the body of the general Ts&Cs; it should have been flagged somewhere prominent, such as on the enrolment form itself. And if it wasn't flagged prominently, they can't enforce that term / can't hold you to that notice period. Good luck!

What you are paying for is the place they can't fill with another child, so they lose money which they need to operate. If they can fill it with another child, then it would be fair to let you off, otherwise I can understand where they are coming from. It's usually bitter experience that makes them have to stand so firm.

Can you come up with a payment plan with them? Longer than two months. Otherwise if you don't pay it might hurt your credit, but a debt collector will likely help come up with a longer term plan to pay if you just don't. They may not bother with collecting on it though and just write it off as a bad debt.

I had to suck up £3500 when my son had to withdraw from a program due to genuine medical reasons. It hurts but it's what I agreed to and they wouldn't have been able to fill the place.

Just cancel the DD. I doubt they will do anything about it.

This. They are.taking the piss with such a long notice period and not bringing this to your attention with something very prominent. It’s likely to be an unfair contract term. Terms that are unusually onerous must be be brought to the attention of a consumer in a prominent and transparent way.

This might be helpful to you:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7c7f43ed915d48c241023b/oft311.pdf

I can see it from their side. If a child stops attending with no notice, of course they are no longer incurring any costs in respect of that child, but they are no longer generating any income that they had relied upon having.

Surely you can see that? Yes your husband lost his job unexpectedly - although I’m sure he was given notice and may have been entitled to redundancy pay. You are arguing that you should be able to impact their income unexpectedly.

It is, ultimately, what you agreed to.

I don’t mean for this to sound harsh, of course I have some sympathy. But I also have friends who run similar types of activities and I know just how hard it is for them financially.

i honestly wouldn’t pay.

the worst that can happen is that they take it to a small claims court… if at this point they are still being difficult you could always pay half.

alternatively i would really encourage you to get yourselves under StepChange.
You can then tell them to go through Stepchange for their money.

We are coming to the end of our time with stepchange but i did use to say and do that if i was getting grief off people.

If I were to leave it to the end of summer and on September 5th or something, just said 'we aren't coming tomorrow / next week' I'd agree. In this case it's two months. Their contract is structured in such a way that April 15th is too short notice to cancel for September 6th. I think that is just a bit of 5 months.

Thank you both for the contract law info.

I don't think you would get anywhere arguing that a term's notice is unreasonable, so long as it was made clear before you signed. That however seems to be the problem-the term was hidden away. I run a kids activity and I make parents agree to each term individually.

But you said DH lost his job in April. If you had handed in their notice then they would have finished end of summer term. It's 1 terms notice. It's a standard contract.

Yes, I also said we were hoping things would get better. The job market is a lot harder than many of us thought. Perhaps we should have cancelled everything immediately?

There is a balance to strike, I feel. How long do people give a childminder who has 3 children, or 5 children in their care? I think it ranges from 4 weeks to 8 weeks. This is a kids activity with around 100 children. This needs proportion. I think most landlords need one or two months notice. I think some jobs need a month's notice, climbing to 3 or 6 for very senior people who aren't easily replaceable. I think two months is a lot for a kids activity where there are around 100 children is adequate, 4 or 5 months to me is completely unexpected, but I say again, in fairness, it was in the contract in the 4th section, which each section having around 10 clauses each or more.

This is it exactly. It is so different to any other experience I have had. The expectation is that you can change termly or even annually. This is kids after all. Sometimes they just decide they hate something and will not go anymore. 5 year olds and 7 year olds. Imagine signing up to piano lessons and it had to be for a year? Many of us wouldn't do it knowing our children might not continue. There needs to be flexibility with children, and for life. Private rented tenants sometimes have to move with two months notice. It's not reflective of life, it completely serves the provider, not the families at all. No one likes such a one sided contract.

But again, I did sign and I should have paid more attention. I think I am not alone in this. I once read about, or watched, about a digital contract presented to people where one of the clauses was that the person signed over the labour of first born son for the first 50 years of their lives or something. Every last person signed.

Do make sure to warn others in any way you can, social media etc. It's really unethical even if it is legal. I'd ask Legal Aid for advice anyway, just to be sure it IS actually legal.

Is it an activity they could replace your children in, so they can fill their places? If no, then you should pay as they have held that place for you. It's on you to read the contracts. You should never sign anything you haven't read the contract for fully.

When I was teaching I changed from week to week charging to term charging, with no refunds if you didn't attend, due to people who thought they could just come and go as they pleased. I still had bills to pay.

It could be argued they were generous forgiving you half the fees due.

It’s a crap contract but you signed and agreed to it. It’s presumably cheaper paying monthly than it is paying month by month (with no notice commitment) that’s why.
If they let you off they would need to let everyone off and that’s not sustainable. The contract is as it is to ensure if people leave there is time to replace the lost fees.
You asked and they negotiated half fee which is generous because they have the law on their side. And yet you are slating them?

it’s awful you can’t afford to pay, options are borrow the money and pay a relative/ friend back gradually or ask the company if you can pay X per month. So say you owe £300 ask to pay £100 per month for 3 months rather than finding £300 in august. Even if they don’t agree you could do it as likelihood is it would be paid before they could get to court (unless you would incur late fees)

I would do this. Say you have priority debts and have been advised by stepchange not to pay anything without it going through them. They’ll likely not want the extra admin and to look like arseholes to an external charity.

You have all really helped me.

This.

I absolutely did.

I think people are making heavy weather of this. Realistically, they're not going to chase you through the courts.
The notice terms are obviously ridiculous and I bet people often leave without honouring them.
If you've cancelled fhe DD, just forget about it and don't beat yourself up.

It only takes about 5 minutes to bring an action in the small claims court and that will immediately increase the amount owed.

theyre running a business. You’re struggling. They could be too. Imagine everyone said “we are quitting and not paying”… I’m sorry for you’re current struggles but they aren’t the result of your musical theatre company so you need to pay IMO.

I'd be very surprised if they tried to take you to court. Even if they did, their notice period can be argued as excessive.

I had similar with a ballet class my daughter did as a toddler. She never joined in once and the teacher never made an effort to get her to get involved. She hated it, so after 4 weeks, I said we wouldn't be completing the term, or returning for another term, and was told I still needed to pay for the next term, even though there was still 3 weeks remaining of the current term and we had already paid for 3 lessons she wouldn't be at.

In reality, they won't do anything about it. It will cost them more to chase the payments than to just let them go. It's very unkind of them though.