To just want normal?

[CautiousLurker01]

Subtitle: Primal Scream [contemplated changing my name but am too tired and too upset]

We’re on day 2 of holiday in Italy. Two SEN YPs (17 and 20), eldest with significant MH issues, RODG/ASD/ADHD, youngest ‘just’ ASD. Holiday chosen with eldest in mind as about to go to uni [perhaps only in theory, who the fuck knows] to study classics, so idea was to do a trip that would engage, make them feel valued and centred and which we would all enjoy.

Instead we are expected to be grateful if eldest/eDC can be arsed to get up at all before lunch; not complain when eDC wanders off in the colosseum or wherever and we spend the next 10mins trying to find them; genuflect when eDC deigns to join us for dinner and suffer the TedTalks. For reference every single fucking member of this family is on the spectrum, but the rest of us try to work out how to navigate the needs of the group and agonise over getting it right/wrong. eDC spends every family meal on phone texting with ‘friends’ [ie online, never met IRL] and/or ‘goes for a walk’ to buy books/art stuff and is so fucking defensive and rude if you dare to suggest they wait until after we’ve been served or perhaps put their phone away for the 15mins we are together eating in a restaurant that is overpriced but nonetheless pretty idyllic location-wise with a view of St Peters. Tonight eDC joined late. DH had plied youngest with Guinness and then lager over dinner. Then decided to split a bottle of red wine with the same 17yo. When I remonstrated that perhaps that was a bad idea, that I wasn’t happy at his encouraging the mixing of a 3rd form of alcohol - esp with a 17yo inexperienced drinker - the aforementioned 17yo snorted derisively and DH scoffed… and I lost it. I walked out of the restaurant. eDC followed knocking a glass over (smashed) and I am now apparently in the shit with them all. DS17 was distraught (may have patched things up with him before bed), DH seriously disappointed that I didn’t rise above it/keep smiling [after all that’s what I’ve done for 20 fucking years, day in, day out] and have now ruined the holiday; and eDC is in a major strop because WE are all dysfunctional and arseholes.

AIBU to just want a few days of normal? To want everyone else to step up/keep smiling/pretend everything is normal instead of me being lumped with it all the fucking time?

I know that I AM BU. My eDC can’t help it, DC is young and DH is stressed to his eyeballs with work and then comes home/on holiday to this. I know I am being selfish right now. But I am just so bloody tired of it all. I want to go home tomorrow, leave them to it, cuddle my dogs and be alone. It’ll never get better, will it? This is my life and I am struggling to see where the joy is because I truly cannot remember the last time I really laughed. There was a musical or song called ‘stop the world, I want to get off’ and I really wish it would, and that I could.

Teens/ young adults can be self centred gits at the best of times and can only imagine what the other issues add on to that. Give yourself a break, you’re only human. I think in future stop trying to please them so much. Choose a weekend break where you are happy to let them do their own thing and so can you. You’ll all be happier.

Sorry this sounds really hard. But would it not be better to just let eldest do their own thing for a bit, chilling in hotel room, using phone at table etc? At least for a day. It doesn’t sound like a holiday for anyone at the moment. Also if you have his phone on find my friends can he not go for a wander on his own?

I’d say try to take a day of complete chill out, you do what you want and if others choose to join you then great, and maybe have a think about what happened in the past on holiday that has worked.

I do agree that when things are as volatile as they seem, drinking alcohol with your kids is only ever going to make things worse.

One lives and learns! - definitely don't do a holiday of this kind again!

I would let the 20 year old do what he likes and I think your husband can deal with a vomiting 17 year old if he plies him with drink - whats wrong with him?

Perhaps tomorrow, 17 year old can spend the day with his dad (nursing a hangover), his brother can spend all day on the phone and you can take a book and relax somewhere.

I didn’t understand half of that but what I did understand was the absolute lack of discipline and respect for you and the entire family.
No idea what RODG is but I do have a child with ASD and they absolutely still need proper discipline and boundaries - even more so in some ways!
I’m genuinely not trying to blame you here but you need to raise merry hell with your eldest. He/she is walking all over you whilst essentially ‘threatening’ you with meltdowns/outbursts whenever you dare to correct him/her. That’s abuse, ASD or not. It’s our role as parents, to prepare our DC for life in the real world - whether they’ve SEN or not. Pandering to their every whim in fear of repercussions, is not preparing a young adult with ASD for life in the real world (A world that is, whether we like it or not, a predominantly neurotypical world).

It’s also no way for you to live.

This sounds awful, sending ❤️💙💐

I would take myself off to a nice restaurant with a book, and sit in the sunshine reading, eating whatever I want and drinking a lot of delicious wine.

Your DH can deal with the kids while you have the day and then do the same for him later on.

Take your phone, but turn it off and say you'll look.at it for 5-10 minutes every hour, but you only expect to be contacted if it's an emergency. They are three adult* men and will cope just fine.

*he's close enough.

I like what @MyrtleLionwrote. Your situation sounds so acutely painful. But wanting a few days of normal, on holiday, is a big fat pipe dream. Holidays are apparently designed to be stressful, to go horribly wrong, for expectations to be dashed. That's what they are for. All that travelling hopefully and never arriving stuff is fed to us to make us still want to go despite the mountain of evidence that it's going to be awful and we'll need to recover from the holiday for a much longer time than we were ever on it.

I am a serial holiday-goer. I cannot learn (it seems). My hopes are always crushed one way or another, what fun to find out HOW they're going to be crushed this time! NOT!

How you will laugh when you look back on this series of small indignities and pointless arguments in the future, and realise how funny it was.

Sending solidarity, power to your elbow, hugs from across the room, you might not appreciate actual physical contact. And soon enough, it'll be over and you shall be at home, planning the next super family break

P.S. my family consists of autistic and ADHD people, except for the in-laws, who are mostly psychopaths

I have many family members who are neurodivergent. It's very hard.. Also being teenagers their brains really are different. I dont think the situation can be any different than it is. Don't distress yourself getting upset. Breath deeply, mentally remove yourself from the situation and when you get home start to build in lots of chill out time snd me time into your life. They will be gone soon and you won't have to deal with ot kn a daily basis.

Thank you all for talking me down. Going to leave teens to do their own thing today and head out to see the Trevi fountain and Spanish steps - alone if noone can be bothered to get up. I think the thing about expectations is key - we are all lead to believe holidays can be this great bonding time, a time for making memories etc… but when everyone is ND it’s just bloody stressful. I think this is the last big family holiday.

Eldest just doesn’t seem to like them and yet we didn’t want to hurt her feelings by not including her. If the holiday is on her terms/what she wants (snowboarding) she is great, apparently (I don’t ski so never go or see this side of her), but she can’t do the compromise and consideration thing. She used to be kind and lovely before puberty/MH issues, so I don’t think it is all ND related. And DH just seems want us all to behave like his mates who he goes on golf tour with (drinking starts at breakfast) so there just seems to be a major clash of expectations all round. As a menopausal ND woman I can’t mimic being a hard drinking bloke. I just want to absorb the culture, history and architecture at a leisurely pace, drink cappuccinos and eat gelato. And I’d wanted to bond with the kids, but you can’t force that either.

Will suggest a few short UK breaks going forward and take myself off on solo weekend trips. Just another 11 days to get through, including Pompeii and Herculaneum next week, but we’ll be based in a hotel on the coast by then so I can just leave the eldest DC to her own devices. Just feel very flat.

Don’t feel flat- a day on your own in a beautiful place will do you the world of good.

Pompeii and Herculanium are amazing places too.

Maybe once you’ve chilled out today have a think about the itinerary coming up and have a relaxed chat with your family about what they want to do. It’s absolutely not the end of the world having a few days to chill in the hotel, especially for the kids, and if your DH wants to booze at breakfast for one day (note ONE day) let him. Maybe try to agree with your eldest that you’ll do one of Pompeii OR Heculanium and let them decide what else they want to do.

I guess I am saying lower your expectations about where compromise will happen and focus on what you want to do, even if that means doing it alone or with one child- then leave the others to it (incidentally I would 100% recommend a trip to one of the islands in the bay of Naples if you can fit it in- I went to Procida a few years ago and it was lovely. Also really liked Naples itself, the bits I visited weren’t dangerous at all and the coffee and pizza were ❤️).

@HeronwatcherI think this has to be the way forward. Just galling when we’ve spent so much money on flights/hotels and on pre-booking the tours when eldest will sit in her room drawing but I’ve slept on it now and we have to just let it go. The money’s spent so there’s nothing we can do but go or not go and, like you say, I can do things on my own. It’s totally safe here and between my Duolingo Italian and the fact everyone speaks a bit of English I’ve navigated the Metro easily. Just going to make a plan each day and invite anyone to join if they fancy it but if DH wants to sit in an Irish pub with my youngest (not been IDed once so far 🤦🏽‍♀️) for the day they can rock on.

Even tho we are all ND we are all also very very different. Our family is a walking exemplar for the fact that it is a spectrum and ‘if you know one person with autism/ND’ you still only know about one person’s autism.

Just been to the supermarket to stock up for the eldest and will be leaving her to it today!

I can feel your disappointment and it's such a shame.
In the future just stick to short UK breaks, 3 nights max.
Snowdonia and East Yorkshire are good places to visit with sons that age.
You can climb Snowdon or some of it, they also have Forrest rollercoaster rides, or see the seals, sea birds and dolphins on the Yorkshire coast, (Bempton and Flamborough) as well as lovely walks along cliffs and lots of boat rides.
Plenty of nice relaxed places to eat and drink.

This sounds horrible. Sit everyone down today and agree to draw a line. This is everyone’s holiday and everyone has different wants / needs. Everyone is also an adult and can take care of themselves. Outline what YOU will be doing to get what YOU need from the day / rest of the holiday and explain everyone is very welcome to join you. Suggest committing to one thing each day you all come together for - perhaps dinner. Then deep breath… and go relax!!!

I think you’ve got exactly the right attitude. As you say, it’s not value for money either if you go on an expensive trip but end up in a row for most of it. And don’t take it personally, it doesn’t mean your kids hate you or that you’ve done a bad job, or that your DH isn’t appreciative, it’s just that everyone has different needs or triggers and needs different things to be happy.

Plus I BET once you get home you’ll look back fondly and everyone will be keen to do it again 🤔 My kids (younger admittedly) regularly spend a day out whinging but then the next day are desperate to go back to the place they condemned as boring/ sad/ cringe/ for old people like me.