4 yrs for cutting down tree, no jail time for rape

[Barnbrack]

Why are 2 men being given custodial sentences for cutting down a tree when men convicted of rape regularly get suspended sentences.

Is an important tree more important than a random woman! Justice system seems to think so.

And you are missing mine - have you read any of the sentencing guidelines, Criminal Damage Act 1971 or the transcript from the judge?

the sentence fit the crime. We cannot simply write off white collar crime as victimless or as something that doesn’t deserve a criminal sentence. because you seem to be saying that the impact say of being punched and kicked is more than having £60,000 stolen which isn’t true.

it is akin to saying financial abuse isn’t as bad as physical abuse - which is wrong they are different but both still abuse

and this wasn’t mindless - it was calculated

Prison is supposed to be a last resort, designed to protect society from certain people.

They cut down a tree, there used to be loads of trees up there, all cut down for firewood, no one gave a shit.

They deserved punishment but 4 years? what exactly are we being protected from?

A pub chain cut down a very old oak tree with TPO on it in London, will at worst, get a fine, passed on to their customers.

Yes because of the financial impact of it - anything under £5,000 doesn’t hit the crown court.

I’m happy these men got that sentence.
But absolutely YANBU that rapes and sexual assaults all too often do not incur anything like a sufficient penalty.

Exactly. The fixation over this one tree when as you say many others are cut down willy nilly is just staggering.

IMO they should have been given 4 years of strictly enforced community service instead, maybe every 50 weekends out of 52, doing something useful like litter picking.
Our prisons are full to bursting, and it costs the taxpayer a bomb to keep people inside.
But I dare say they’d probably plead a sudden disability/MH issues, and get out of it that way.

Financial impact

anything under £5000 is magistrate

the sentencing judgment linked explains it all perfectly!

You’re wasting your time, she’s not going to read up on the case. Her (incorrect) mind is made up.

I've seen all I need to on the news. If the judge's non stop monologue at sentencing is anything to go by no I don't have a spare 3 months to trawl through court bumpf.

The sycamore tree was a lovely sight, standing alone as loads of others had been lopped down. These 2 should not have committed mindless vandalism but perspective is needed. A custodial sentence is ridiculously extreme.

Yes get them sweeping up, planting trees, doing useful stuff for the community. They'll probably come out hardened crims after 4 yrs banged up.

Well that is how it works in all sentencing! I mean some judgments are LONG but need to be due to common law.

anyway the link is in the thread it is fairly short and sets out exactly what the sentencing guidelines are for criminal damage and where this case fits including the aggravating and mitigating factors

it really does explain it all

includinf the fact it wasn’t mindless

Point proven

The financial impact is due to the fixation on this particular tree, so it had to be preserved, seedlings taken, sampling sent around the country, the wall had to be repaired using a specialist, doubtless his services don't come cheap either....

Its a Sycamore, we treat them as "weeds" they grow up literally everywhere and are very fast growing.

We have an extremely stressed prison system & a country that has no money.

Do we really have the luxury of imprisoning non violent idiots for long terms?

You seem utterly fixated only on the damage to the tree. They damaged Hadrian’s Wall, a UNESCO World Heritage site. If it had been in China, they would have got up to 10 years; Italy up to 5; France up to 10. They really got off quite lightly, especially considering they won’t actually be in prison for 4 years.

@Absolutely45 do we really have the luxury to simply write off non violent crimes as not being impactful?

I could be punched and hit yes but the impact of that for me isn’t going to be worse than someone stealing £60,000 from me.

we see financial abuse as being bad like physical and sexual abuse - we cannot create a hierarchy where it isn’t because that is saying it is ok

we have different prisons for this anyway? So they are not going to be housed with violent offenders and the place they are going to is likely not to be suitable for a violent offender

there are 4 categories of prisons so it isn’t as if they are taking the place of a violent offender

'If it had been in China, they would have got up to 10 years'

So what! We surely aren't using other country's judiciary as anything to aspire to. Particularly China.

The question should be why there was only one sole tree and why all the others had been lopped to preserve the view. Bit of selective tree hugging if you ask me.

I hope they appeal the silly sentence.

On what grounds?

'I could be punched and hit yes but the impact of that for me isn’t going to be worse than someone stealing £60,000 from me.'

Someone attacking you would of course have a greater impact than a tree being chopped down and damaging a wall.

But the WHOLE reason it was moved from a summary to an indictable offence is the financial side.

Have you read the sentencing report as to why? Because it really does explain it

and even if they do appeal the chances of it becoming non custodial are slim because it would have to be appeal IMO on the fact that the aggravating and mitigating factors weren’t applied properly

given the range specified was 4 years and that is pretty much what they got they would need mitigating factors

My point was that other world heritage sites carry longer sentences so they’re lucky they were in the UK. This act did not merely affect the British: it had international significance (as indeed did the tree). However, you clearly think that damaging internationally important heritage sites is unimportant. I am very glad that most people seem to disagree with you - that actually gives me hope - that the majority of people do still value history and beauty.

I am disgusted by this crime and glad that they have received a custodial sentence. But yes, there does seem to be weird inconsistencies with sentences handed down compared to public perception of the seriousness of the offence.

I hate to sound like a ranting taxi driver, but the system seems all out of whack. Its become a right wing cliché, but it does have some truth in it - claim that sex is real on twitter, or moan about the school governors and you'll have a riot squad at your house. Tell the police that you have been burgled or had your phone snatched and you'll get a crime reference number and text later that day to tell you that the case is closed.

Cut down a tree (albeit an iconic and particularly beautiful one) or post an irrational ill judged tweet when drunk and suffering personal trauma, and you're banged up for several years. Yet we're seeing time and time again that thieves with literally hundreds of offenses are being handed suspended sentences.

It appears that there is a political motivation to a lot of these sentences, and I'm sick of it.

I do think a lot of the apparent inconsistencies come from people not availing themselves of the facts of different cases and the rational for different sentences. Reading Judge’s Sentencing Remarks which give the rationale would give an insight.

However, it is easier for some to rely on what they have read/been fed by the media who, as we should all know by now, simplify and sensationalise their reports.

Quite @grumpygrape the problems with the justice system aren’t at the sentencing stage it is what gets to the sentencing stage indeed what makes it past CPS and even past the police.

and a lack of knowledge

Oh please. Who cba to read long drawn out court essays. The media don't feed us anything they report the facts, in a nutshell not a 20 page speech.

The facts are 2 blokes lopped down a lovely tree. A sole tree as many others had been chopped down to 'preserve views' apparently. One crim had a troubled past the other didn't. The tree was viewed by some as a historical thing and it did damage an actual historical wall which for some reason cost a lot to repair, maybe short of stone masons in Northumberland. Tell me what I'm missing?

The only thing sensationalised are some of the emotive comments on this thread.

They shouldn't have done it, they should be punished but sweeping up or similar would have sufficed.

Gloria tells me I shouldn't quote their posts but then asks me questions.
Not going to be drawn.
😘