Parents choosing not to vaccinate their children

[MidnightPatrol]

A child has died in Liverpool as part of an outbreak of measles. 17 are currently hospitalised with it in the city, as part of a wider outbreak.

73% of children in Liverpool are vaccinated against measles - vs an England average of 84%.

A rate of 95% immunisation is required for herd immunity. No child in the UK needs to be getting measles - we can vaccinate against it.

In Liverpool, there is a risk of a widespread measles outbreak due to this low rate of immunisation - it is very infectious, so the risk to the population is significant.

If you are a parent that doesn’t get your child vaccinated, why?

Should the government not be using further incentives to encourage people to take up vaccination - are a third of Liverpudlians really against vaccinating their children?

Should non-vaccinated children be limited from accessing nursery or schools (as in other countries)?

I have a friend who is a nurse who has chosen not to vaccinate her youngest child. It beggars belief!!

Yes, for some that’s enough, for others it’s not.

Some need to know more, that’s how our local kwikfit was found to be taking advantage of women and patronising them, telling them they would t let them drive away without 4 new tires and a new brake system. It got called out because people started questioning it and kwikfit didn’t have a leg to stand on.

We defer to the scientists, but if questions are asked they should be answered, and very often they’re not, because too many are under the impression that scientists know best, let’s leave it at that. And in today’s world there are too many occasions of scientists getting it wrong and covering it up, and this leads to more people asking questions.
If they can’t answer, or they rely on people shutting down the questions, it’s in all our best interests to expect more communication, and in a way that more people can understand.

Colon cancer is related to diet and physical condition. Vaccines are not causing us to be unhealthier, our diet and levels of exercise are. I don't know where you are reading this stuff, but maybe (and I mean this genuinely and kindly) find out a bit about the history of vaccination and how the various types work within the body? It's genuinely amazing and has saved millions upon millions of lives overall.

I can guarantee you that if you ask a vaccine expert how vaccines work, what are the benefits, what are the dangers, they know and they already happily share that information with us.

I’m not suggesting that vaccines are linked to colon cancer. Rather, I’m pointing out that we’ve seen many environmental and societal changes in recent years that may be impacting public health in complex ways. Identifying the root causes of these health trends is challenging, especially since the pace of scientific research often struggles to keep up with the speed of technological advancement and environmental shifts.

Parents face barriers to vaccinating children, says report - BBC News https://share.google/GmPpfE1EMSF5Ljp99

What’s that got to do with vaccination though? You were saying children should be vaccinated later. What has this to do with that?

This last comment just shows a lack of understanding about how science works. Science is driving technological advancement and at the forefront of understanding environmental shifts. We do not often lag behind unless there's serious underfunding, eg as is happening in TrumpUSA.

The first vaccine was developed in 1796.

And is still being used!

I had measles as a child and almost lost my sight. It was over 50 years ago but I still remember how horribly ill I was and how worried my parents were.
Measles kills so many people world wide. A quick look at the World Health Organisation website shows some shocking statistics. Over 107,500 people died of measles in 2023, mostly under 5's. I had to read that number several times because of the enormity of it.
To not have your child vaccinated against an easily preventable disease is unforgivable.

How would vaccinating later help with that?

I agree, unvaccinated children should not be permitted to attend nursery or schools, unless certificated that they can’t.

Want to use society’s facilities? Well buy into society then.

Seems fairly obvious to me - if you want to prove vaccines are safe then a double blind trial of every vaccine needs to take place. Since there haven't been any there is no way to prove they are safe. They have been round for decades that's true - but so has SIDS which is more common post 8 week vaccines.

More information is required - why is a common childhood illness 50 years ago now designated a killer. Did the child in Liverpool die OF measles or WITH measles - there's a difference.

One of my children had a severe allergic reaction to the MMR and was advised against all other vaccines. Am I worried he will get measles? No because most adults are also no longer immune.

SIDS rates have massively reduced over the years. If SIDS was caused by vaccinations then surely the rate would be just as high as before the back to sleep campaign?

Having several at once doesn’t overload the immune system at all. Kids come into contact with hundreds of thousands of pathogens a day at the same time - an extra half a dozen makes no difference at all. Immune systems cope perfectly well - that’s their exact purpose.

Just to add my 2p on Covid vaccines. I had a severe reaction which resulted in semi permanent nerve damage in my arm. As a result I was scared to have my daughter vaccinated. She got Covid in 2023 so severely that she now has a severe milk intolerance that impacts her daily. This has been confirmed as being a direct link to her having Covid by her consultant who she now has to see. She is also on daily Omeprazole. There isn’t a day that goes by where I don’t think I’m directly responsible. Instead of eating ice cream on holiday today she had to have a piece of pizza cooked with no cheese that my husband had to ask for specially. Something to think about maybe.

I was really lucky, I had a good relationship with my gp and trusted him. I also had a close friend who was a gp. She explained that many immunisations are given early precisely because a child’s immune system is immature, reactions are more likely with a well developed immune system. Our immune system doesn’t recognise things it’s never encountered before so doesn’t react to it. It’s only by encountering things that it “learns” how to deal with it.

We actually have two boys with autism but a) they were born with it and b) thank god they’re not autistic and blind from measles!!

dh caught mumps about 18 years ago and I was so grateful that the boys were protected. None of the doctors in our local (major, teaching) hospital had seen it!

It’s widely acknowledged that babies have more sensitive skin due to their thinner epidermis and immature skin barrier, making them more vulnerable to irritants and environmental factors. Similarly, infants can’t digest solid foods properly until their digestive system has matured enough, usually around 4 to 6 months of age. This developmental timeline reflects the fact that many of their bodily systems including digestive, immune, and metabolic are still in a critical phase of growth and adaptation.
Given this, it seems contradictory that we often expect babies’ bodies to cope with vaccines and other immune challenges in the same way as older children or adults, despite their physiological immaturity.

I am ware Vaccines are specifically designed with this in mind: they contain precisely measured amounts of antigens and adjuvants that safely stimulate the infant immune system without overwhelming it. However, I think I would feel comfortable with administering vaccines when the baby’s body is more matured.

If you google 'double blind vaccine trials' you will immediately see that your statement is untrue. Where did you read that there haven't been any? That is a lie, unfortunately.

Vaccines have been around for centuries, not a few decades.

And childhood diseases were killers. That is why vaccines were developed.

All of this information is actually taught in a basic secondary science class.

It’s very difficult because these are children from families that we don’t want to isolate further. These parents are flat out negligent. They prioritise their own right to be stupid over their child’s safety. We want their children to have access
to other opinions and grow up to possess
more robust intellects than their parents.

Did the doctor explain how she developed an intolerance? It is possible she would have developed this without getting covid or getting another virus. It is not unusual start to experience a decline in lactase as children grow - This is mainly genetic.

I didn’t take this unconfirmed situation as ‘fact’ , but it did give me pause for thought. It was a senior, highly experienced doctor who stated that in his medically experienced opinion the reason my husband was so very unwell was that there was an acute situation in his immune response which was exacerbated by having several vaccines administered at the same time. I know that children are not administered yellow fever with their vaccinations. However, my point is that perhaps it is exactly these sort of situations which need greater education and guidance for the lay person as to why the childhood immunisations would differ from my husbands vaccination experience. I had taken his medical advice and opinion. As previously stated I am pro vaccination and my son is vaccinated.

Re the MMR vaccine, giving them together shortens the time the child is unprotected. Separating the vaccines lengthens that time.
As for overloading the immune system, how many bugs do you think a child could encounter during a day unless you keep them in a sealed bubble?

I saw a short clip of a paediatrician in the US explaining why he didn't accept unvaccinated patients. So, he was turning away little kids who needed help, and he would be paid for treating them.

It's because the risks are too great to the patients he has, who are vaccinated. The blame lies squarely with the parents (who are reading dross on the internet). Society provides us with a means to protect ourselves and others, and really can't do much more on that score. But society doesn't have to knowingly endanger its members. It is a bloody shame, it really is. But what can we do except try to persuade people to look at facts? To understand that they're being taken for a ride by egos who write crap on the internet?