To need help with our family dynamic

[Tiredflow]

I'm a very sleepy drived 3 month pp mum of two. We love newborn with all our heart. Our 4 year old DD however, has become increasingly tricky. This started prior to the birth and has only gotten worse as we are struggling to get a handle on things.

Dd is a lovely caring girl, she just has really explosive emotional outbursts. These are guaranteed to happen at least once a day. In these fits of emotion, her father (DH) is usually the target. He can get hit, bit, slapped, kicked, stuff thrown at him. I've also had my fair share but she seems to really direct her aggression towards him.

I concluded this is because I'm a sahm and she rarely sees DH since he works full time. She misses him immensely and when he comes back she craves his attention. Unfortunately she has now conditioned herself to get it negatively.

We have tried everything under the sun, special allocated time together. Reward charts, talking over emotions when calm, time outs, having things taken away as punishment, getting down to her level and hugging her/calmly explaining we don't hit. The biggest thing at the moment is dinner time and bed time. It's become a battle between wills with DD and DH.

My problem lies with not only dad's behaviour but DH's reactions. He has now taken to grabbing DD or pushing/pulling her when she gets physical. I get that it can be an immediate response to just get someone away from you who is being aggressive despite the age. But I have reminded DH many times that he is 4 times the height of her and older. That he should be able to control his emotions and walk away.

The other day he pushed her back when she went to antagonise him follow him around (which she does to get under his skin) and she whacked her head on the floor. Luckily no serious damage was done but I told him off for it and dd became hysterical about her head since she realised I brought it up.

I'm at a loss of how to navigate this dynamic. Dad's behaviour is spiralling out of control, we are at our wits end. DH seems so angry and worked up all the time. I've suggested him doing something for himself before coming home to wind down, meditating, going for a walk, what ever he needs to do to cope. I realise DD is intense and her violent attacks do HURT. I don't blame him but I think he should be responsible for his response to her action. How do I navigate this family dynamic. I feel so sorry for DD and recognise there has been a lot of change for her and she must be struggling. Dd is very emotionally aware and advance, always has been. She knows her own mind and is strong headed which doesn't help. DH just won't listen and has become stuck in his ways with her. I'm at a loss. Between that and a really overly needy crying newborn I feel like running away sometimes. Help!

Your DH physically retaliates towards a 4yo child?! I would honestly leave him.

@IMissSparkling he doesn't hit her or attack her back. He pushes her away sometimes rather than walking away. But because of the obvious height/weight difference it is dangerous and I've pointed that out to him. In the heat of the moment it's easy not to think. She has literally made him bleed before and scarred him from bites. So I know why he gets defensive

Its unacceptable for him to push her at all, if she'd fell and hit her head then she could have been really injured. Does he react violently to you as well?

Re your DH, if he isn't prepared to take action NOW to control his behaviour (therapy, anger management, exercise - whatever works) then honestly I'd ask him to leave the family home and stay away until he can control himself, because being physically abusive to a four year old is totally unacceptable. I can see from your post that you don't want to call it that and you're trying to justify or explain it but at the end of the day all that matters is that he isn't a safe person to have in the house with her, and he needs to take responsibility for his behaviour to change that. He needs the most serious of wake up calls to address this.

Re your daughter, I would focus with incredible intensity on praising her. To the point where it feels ridiculous. Children in their early years on average receive ten times more correction than praise, when what they need for optimal development is for it to be the other way round. I'm talking like 100 times per day. And not cheap, throwaway praise like 'good job!'. The gold standard is to get down to her level, put a hand on her shoulder or back, and say something really genuine and specific, like 'you worked so hard on that colouring, I'm so impressed at how well you concentrated' / 'you shared your cookie with me, that was such a kind thing to do' / 'you are such a good helper when you bring your plate through to the kitchen' / 'you play such imaginative games, it's so fun to play with you'. Get into the habit of noticing and praising her for absolutely everything you can. It will make a very significant difference to her behaviour.

If you're on Instagram there is an account called @drchelsey_parenting where there are so many helpful posts about this.

Change the routine.

are you breastfeeding?

get him to spend time dealing with the newborn etc while you handle her bedtime etc.

for the moment just keep them apart as much as possible.

you can frame it to H as that she’s acting out to get your attention.

if she’s actually hurting him (bites, drawing blood etc then that’s not great). He should be able to walk away but many people (of both sexes) find it hard.

@Shoxfordian he isn't violent towards ds he man handles her. So it's more like when she goes to attack him he will pull her away, or if she is being unbearable to get out the door for school he will grab her to get her dressed

@BeachPossum We've done the focus on the positive more than the negatives. We've been overly dramatic towards the praises/rewards. Taken her out and treated her when she is good to highlight it. But as soon as she gets in one of these "moods" it all goes down the drain. It's like she is on a mission to detail and can't help herself

So he shoves a 4yo over where she’s banged her head - but she’s the problem? You have a DH problem. How can you support your DD to make better choices as a toddler, when your husband is out of fucking control? This is actually really awful. She’s clearly learning from his aggression, and is emotionally struggling because he’s giving her negative attention.

I think you need to get actively involved. Hand the baby to DH and you manage 4yo's evening routine.

@EverybodyLTB he said she flung herself back and threw herself on the ground.

I think people are focusing solely on DH here and its only one half of the picture. I'm not excusing his responses. I made a point in my op that I'm not happy with either of them. Although I know I should be able to expect DH to control himself more than DD. I just think he is at his wits end and just can't cope with all the stress DD is putting him through. I can see he has shut down and is more angry recently. I get the impression he doesn't enjoy being here anymore.

Dds behaviour is definitely spiralling and she now inflicts it on me, grandparents, where as before it was contained to just DH. She is slamming doors, shouting and screaming, kicking and throwing furniture, calling us names. It's really hard to go through every. Single. Day. And unless you have I think it's too easy to judge DH

You are better off paying zero attention to your dds outbursts. No facial expression, nothing.

When she is aggressive, lift her and put her in her room for 4 mins, close door and ignore. After that go in and sternly tell her that behaviour is not acceptable. If she continues then back in her room for another 4 mins

Show her you will not tolerate her behaviour

Honestly, if any child of mine hit me they got one back.

It sounds like a really challenging time for you all. Firstly you need to see the changes through the eyes of your four year old. She is probably feeling pushed out, change in expectations and missing having her to yourself. Her behaviour is not at all acceptable but it does need understanding in order to manage it.
You and your DH need to get on the same page about approach...his responses are not ok....he is bigger, stronger and a supposed to be a safe person for your daughter. Meeting her physical outburst with his is going to continue escalating.
Try to see where the trigger points are and distract your daughter by involuntary in something. When the physical stuff starts, a firm "we are not hurting eachother" " I can see you getting cross, let's blow some bubbles, jump up and down, throw soft balls at the door....discharge the anger.
She is clearly struggling with huge feelings and they have to come out so you will need to help her find a way.

Please don't isolate her..she is too young to properly reflect on what is happening for her and will end up feeling isolated and ashamed. me
Good luck

Excuse typos!!!

As everyone has pointed out this level of physical contact and aggression on his part can be fatal. A fatal accident is still fatal.

I think it's often a mistake to label a 4 year old as "emotionally aware and advanced". I'm going to hazard she is highly verbal. This can look like she understands a lot - she may even be able to talk at length about her feelings - but no matter how bright she only has the brain development of a 4 year old. Their insight is physically limited by their developmental age.

I wonder if your daughter is actually jealous of the baby taking you away from her/having to share you. I think you might be more of this equation than you think. Perhaps she is angry that she "only" gets daddy more these days. It is still early days, it sounds like your husband needs to reign it in and just keep being nice to her no matter what she throws at him. Things will calm down when her nervous system has got the message that you are both still there for her, love her, and are gentle with her no matter how much she tests you.

Parenting is like this. I have teens . With them you just have to keep coming back no matter what they throw at you. Regarding the 4 year old as the problem here is really risky. No matter how bright, she is only 4 and has just had one of the biggest life shake ups she will ever have.

I’m still nonplussed at your thinking. DH not being able to cope and lashing out, being constantly angry, that’s understandable. But your DD who is a child managing big feelings and reacting to this aggression, that’s the root of the problem? I have a very emotional child (my youngest) and I used to have a very miserable and angry DH. I’ve divorced the husband and got the child mental health support and he’s thriving, all of my children now do mindfulness and other management for their health both mental and physical. Two things can be true, your child can be explosive for sure, but your husband is awful. This is not a game of equals - he’s an adult, her adult. He’s supposed to be setting boundaries and examples not getting in a mood and lashing out.

Hang on, if a four year old goes for you, they can hurt. Thankfully my four year old isn’t prone to aggression (we have had it in the past though and it isn’t very nice so sympathy OP) but he is boisterous and has hurt me by accident flinging himself around so if he decided to hurt me he could. And I just stand there and take it? Er - no sorry but fuck that! Obviously you don’t retaliate but that’s not what is being described here; the DH is trying to get away and is being followed around and hit.

Accidents do happen in normal, loving families. It sounds like she’s struggling a lot with the baby which is hard on her but DH isn’t a punch bag, and he shouldn’t have to take it!

It sounds like your DH is now permanently on edge due to your DDs outbursts. I get these outbursts are challenging to deal with, but in between them, your DH has to regulate himself so he's back to normal. He is currently not modelling the behaviour he expects from the 4 year old. So it's not surprising that she's like she is. I actually think from your description you probably need professional help. I would be very worried about your DHs reaction because I think it has the potential to be dangerous. Is there somewhere he could stay locally while you address these issues.

You need to address both, your DH needs help to manage your DD without getting hurt in the process - what happens when she’s physically violent to him? Can you tag team each other when you see her starting to get heightened so he’s not left carrying the brunt of it? You said you’ve tried different things - it may be worth finding one system you’re comfortable with and being completely consistent in applying it. Give it a good 3/4 months.

Dd is very emotionally aware and advance, always has been.

Shes still only 4, with 4 year old processing capacity and psychological processes. She needs help to express emotion and clear boundaries around using violence, which will be difficult if your DH is forceful in dealing with her. You both need to agree immediate consequences for her being violent along with supporting her emotional literacy.

OP it sounds like your DD is struggling with her feelings about having a new sibling and that is completely normal. When she has an outburst, your aim must always be to stay calm and de-escalate the situation. Don't focus on making her stop immediately which is what we automatically do - instead do your best to give it absolutely as little attention as possible. So just say we don't hit, calmly, remove yourself to another room (with baby to keep them safe) and let it play out. If she follows you, just put her back in the other room. No shouting, no telling off, no eye contact, no conversation. You will have to persist because it will take some time for any new intervention to work but be consistent and do it every single time. When the meltdown has finished, don't give her a long lecture about how it's bad to hit etc - she already knows this. Instead, just say 'Ok, do you want to go play in the garden/do a puzzle/help me make lunch now'? If she says No, just say ok and get on with doing something else. Give it 10 minutes and then ask again, shall we do x now?

When she is behaving well, tell her how much you enjoy doing things with her and what good company she is.

Don't expect it to change overnight. Above all, you and DH need to keep calm, no shouting, grabbing, pushing which is just going to escalate the outburst and prolong it. Your DH needs to be a grown up and walk away/go outside and calm himself down.

To add, you say you've tried everything but just checking... have you tried your husband taking the baby while you take the 4yo for one some to one when he gets home? And you leaning in with her when baby is napping etc

You're home with them both FT, you are going to be part of this.

Maybe she would do better with "just because" treats rather than taking away her possessions when she is naughty andgiving her treats when she does what you want. And make sure any reward charts are achievable and don't rely on her exhibiting more self control and planning than a 4 year old (even an emotionally advanced one) is capable of.

Just like an endlessly crying baby, sometimes the adult needs to leave to regain their composure. That looked like popping the baby into the pram and standing in the garden for 10 minutes before. It now looks like going for a quick walk.

Our DD1 was very similar. We got to the point where we could see it coming. We called it ‘jangly’. That’s the time to intervene. We used gross motor activity to rebalance her (cycling, trampolining, etc.) We later got a dog which helped more than anything.

You won’t divert every incident but you can divert most. DH needs to make sure he is getting planned breaks if he is currently the target but also planning enjoyable 1-to-1 time with her. New LEGO to build together, new board game to play together, new book to read together, etc.

I was trained in child restraint as a teacher and I did deploy that when I had to. I always reminded DH it was better for me to do this because I was trained and I am female.

Everyone does have a trigger. DC will push you far beyond anything you will have experienced before. Mine is having my feet stamped on. I don’t know why it bothers me so much; it just does. I know I cannot tolerate that.

Lots for you to talk through together. You need a plan. You need to switch regularly when the meltdown lasts more than 2 hours. Planned breaks but also planned fun with the target parent.

It will pass but it will change you as a person and your relationship with each other and your child.