To think Erin Patterson could have got away with murder

[Cheesychipsandbeans]

If she'd just said from the beginning she went foraging for mushrooms, thought she knew what she was doing and made a "terrible mistake".

I think that's what I find most disturbing about this case. Her lies and deception after the fact is what tripped her up. I read the article where the doctor treating the victims stated he knew it was her once she said she bought the mushrooms at a supermarket. No one was dead at that point so her reasons to lie if she was innocent were nill and as they already knew it was mushroom poisoning, and absolutely no way they would have been bought in a shop, it was such a terrible lie. If she'd said straight away she'd been foraging and not tried to lie her way out of it, I genuinely think she'd have gotten away with murder.

It might have taken longer, but there were other suspicious signs, like the fact that she discharged herself from hospital and wasn't worried about her children. And the history with her ex husband having seemingly been poisoned before. If she'd got everything right, she perhaps could have got away with it, but there were lots of little mistakes.

He did. I can't find the article right now, but it was clear Simon told his father about his suspicions of Erin trying to poison him. Don told him to be careful about saying too much as it could affect relationships within such a small community. Simon also told his brother about it and said that he - Simon - would need to be very careful in his future dealings with Erin. This was the real reason he didn't feel comfortable going to the meal. None of this was admissible in court due to the fact the judge had decided there would be two separate trials for Erin.

When Don first started being sick, he remembered the conversation and insisted on taking a container of his vomit into the hospital to be tested for poison. This may well have been why the hospital were onto the possibility of death caps far earlier than Erin expected. She thought it would be put down to food poisoning for the 48 hours it would take for the toxicology tests to stop showing the actual poisonous substance. Again, none of this was admissible evidence in this trial, so all Simon was allowed to say was that he felt uncomfortable about going to the meal.

😂😂😂 I should have added, I'm just a big true crime fan, not a psychopath! I always listen to true crime podcasts and hear about the small details that make police/juries/communities believe a person is innocent. So I always think that the perfect crime would be one where you set the scene to create these little details first.

Right. Her biggest mistake, of course, was to attempt to poison someone more than once. Especially when her ex had been so terribly sick on multiple occasions and clearly would have been suspicious of her by this point!

She probably still would have been done for manslaughter

No she wouldn’t , it was murder or accident I heard.

For the sake of the huge sums of money his family had got her to "lend" them over the years, more like.

She was clearly a vulnerable woman and they were all financially abusing her.

Very true! I’ve had bowel cancer and had my colon removed which left me with tummy trouble for months. I always joked that the sign of my full recovery was when I left the house for a day wearing white jeans/shorts!

I once went on a fungi foraging and identifying event and the lead told us if edible and non edible fungi are picked and put in the basket together then the non edible ones could contaminate the edible ones. The fungi were destroyed and no one was allowed to take any home.

He did say he was once asked if he could show someone how to identify poisonous mushrooms but he said he would only show people how to identify edible mushrooms. A very knowledgeable and sensible man.

She was never going to get away with it. She is far too thick to come even close to doing a good job of covering her tracks.
Other people absolutely get away with murder, but not her. Not enough brain matter between her ears.

Well if that's the case, we've no idea how smart the average murderer is because we don't know how many deaths that were deemed natural or accidental were not.

I am a bit weird! I used to go fungi hunting with my grandfather as a child. So I developed a real love of fungi and now I go toadstool hunting every autumn.

I don’t forage but simply document and photograph wild mushrooms and fungi. Death caps are fairly common but not overly so- not sure about Australia.

They are a very distinctive olive colour which gets darker as they age - they can almost look black in tone and have a “ fairy toadstool “ umbrella shape as part of the amanita family.

They have a particular smell and you can’t mistake it; it’s not mushroomy - it’s a pungent, thick kind of rotting odour that is vile close up. ( I get close for my photos). The smell can make you feel sick. Toadstools all have the same offensive rotten smell as oppose to wild edible mushrooms that are lightly aromatic and just “ woody”

So when she said not only had she bought them but mistook them for normal mushrooms I knew she was guilty. I understand that rarely a few people do mistake them but you’d have to be completely oblivious not to realise.

Death caps are pure white inside like - normal shrooms are a creamy tone with hints of pink. Cutting them up would surely have raised suspicions as they don’t look like normal inside either.

She lived in a rural ish area too so you would come across toadstools regularly too if you have woods nearby.

Sadly many species are becoming less common and it’s getting harder to find many in the UK.

But I was like — yeah right lady! Of course she knew.

An unbelievable thing to do; a terrible death for those poor innocent elderly people. And she’d already poisoned her husband! Just so evil. Female killers often use poison. I think Emperor Claudius was poisoned in the same by his wife?

And of course, she herself may have actually got away with it before. Who the fuck knows.

Small trivia point... despite the stereotypes, most poisoners are men and they commit more poisonings overall. However, women killers are significantly more likely than men killers to choose poison.

I don’t think she would have gotten away with it even then- her mobile pinged off cell towers within a day or two locations where nightcaps had been sited on a website where people report these things. I think that would hage convinced people she went after them on purpose. If she had left her phone at home however, or used a burner, then yes she could have!

Well often liars who commit crimes aren't as bright as they think they are. I did jury service and the defendant pretty much denied knowing the complainant. The evidence suggested she spent a lot of time at the defendant's home with family. Had he not tried to deny spending time her, it would have been much more difficult to judge what the facts were. People's lies do come out eventually.

Erin Patterson did herself no favours by turning up at the hospital then leaving so quickly either. I don't know how someone like that lives with themself. Narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies I guess.

As I understand it no clear motive was established. Did she intend to kill or only make people ill?

In some ways her case reminded me of Graham Young (The Teacup Poisoner).

There is something psychopathic about poisoning. It's remote and yet personal. People use poisons to get rid of pests.

It’s the remote part that they like . Victims go , suffer and die away from the perpetrator. They don’t see, and no blood or gore to clean . Don’t have to dispose of a body ,like they have a clean conscience. Weird .

Search for The Trial podcast in your podcast player. It's a Daily Mail podcast, they cover a lot of criminal trials. At the moment they are also covering the Sheffield school stabbing.

Me too but @wineosaurusrex has skills 🤣

First her husband gave evidence that she had poisoned him several times.

Really??? First time I've seen that reported.

I wonder what percentage of murderers nowadays give themselves away with their mobile phone data?

There were heavy restrictions on it being reported, but here's a link to a Daily Mail article (sorry.)

archive.ph/IDg8m

I have been listening to the podcast which is by the Mail, I think. If previous charges are still outstanding that would explain why not discussed - in order not to prejudice any potential future case. Wow though. Paints a whole different light.

You have to wonder what harm she has caused prior to this. There are the 4 separate occasions she is alleged to have poisoned her husband - one incident was so serious he was in ICU and had to have his bowel resectioned. He confided in his parents about his concerns she'd poisoned him and his dad advised him not to take it any further. However when they all fell ill after the lunch Don (her FIL) took a sample of his vomit to hospital and asked them to test it for poison because they knew immediately what she had done. I don't think she knew her husband suspected she'd been poisoning him. The planning she had to do for the beef wellington poisoning was protracted and complex. This is not an entry level crime.