To think parents should be given a proxy vote for their children

[OldLondonDad]

Bit of a random topic for AIBU, but since we've had a few threads recently on politics and taxes, why not?...

A decade or so ago I thought it seemed that those who will impacted most by today's policies have the least (no!) say in them. Our politics are largely shaped by the vote of the oldest section of society and the youngest just have to live with it.

Solution? Give parents an extra vote per child. They will be highly likely to use it in the way that benefits their child, so the country's policies will be more likely to favour the young (and the future of the country) rather than the old.

There's a name for the concept - demeny voting. It gets considered here and there in various countries, but what does mumsnet think?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demeny_voting

(no I'm not a journalist / politician / think-tank analyst etc., just a regular dad)

"If not through their parents' voting, then how can they be represented?"

Through who their parents vote for.

Absolutely not!

People who have children don't deserve more votes than anyone else. They'll already have more of an impact on the future through their parenting choices and what they teach their children. Be satisfied with that.

They aren't disenfranchised because older people vote. They are disenfranchised because they are disenfranchised.

To be fair the low turnout for the younger generation has been a "problem" as long as I can remember. However it's totally self imposed - I've never had any real sympathy for it.

In the round, 1 in 3 people don't vote. The implication being that 1 in 3 people is happy with whatever we get.

Trivial statistical analysis suggests this means that a lot of people who froth (and claim all sorts of bollocks) didn't vote, haven't voted, and won't vote.

You could only make one single change to voting. Just one. And it had to be simple (none of this PR nonsense). Then it would be to require the winning candidate to poll over 50% of the votes possible, not the votes cast. You would not believe the seismic shift that would create in politics as it would be impossible to win with a shopping list of things you don't like anymore. You'd have to give people something to vote for

Frankly, much of the population of voting age is so woefully ill-informed (not to mention poorly educated and, well, just not particularly intelligent to begin with) that we already have people voting who honestly shouldn't be. Children haven't been educated enough or lived long enough to make such an important decision. They're not ready for the responsibility and would just vote as their parents told them. But as you're suggesting parents just vote for them, anyway, there wouldn't even be the pretense that their vote was truly of their own choosing. 'One vote per person (of voting age)' still stands.

I am happy with the voting age staying at 18.

Ridiculous idea. Falls on the first assumption - parents care more about the future than childfree adults.

Simply not true.

Terrible idea. A lot of parents on this site don’t cover themselves in glory with their decision making, so let’s just give those people more power.

Reverting the Tory change and reintroducing PR.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/landmark-devolution-bill-brings-new-dawn-of-regional-power

We absolutely should be able to talk about it.

But really, the fact that people lacking capacity are under-represented is the very least of it. I have no representation, there is nobody for me to vote for.

You could always stand yourself and represent all the other people who think like you and have no one to vote for ?

Who remembers the story about the hen baking bread ?

More engaged with causes, have strong opinions I would agree with. For some reason this doesn't seem to translate into them turning up at polling stations. Part of this will be that messaging for protests etc are strongly circulated on social media / aimed at them whereas political messaging doesnt even give them a mention.

Parents need to encourage them to get involved in order to change that rather than wait for the dialogue to shift to them.

This isn't a criticism of teenagers / young people in any way, more trying to understand why they don't seem engaged on one level whilst in so many other ways they are incredibly engaged. It takes courage to walk up to the table and plonk yourself down.

No, I won't be doing that. And it's disingenuous to pretend not to know the reasons that people don't do that.

According to this, voter turnout is almost equal lowest for age groups 18-24 and 25-34:

https://post.parliament.uk/election-turnout-why-do-some-people-not-vote/

I'd say a large proportion of people (who want to be parents) have kids by 34? Not all of course, but many:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/294594/mother-average-age-at-childbirth-england-and-wales-by-child-number/

So if parents really want to get a bigger "say" on behalf of their own children, rather than giving them extra votes on the children's behalf, it would be more effective if they just consistently voted themselves - and brought up their kids as politically engaged such that they vote too once old enough.

(And that's putting aside "you don't actually know how your children would vote if they were able" arguments!)

I think it’s a daft idea. Sorry.

Yeah im not sure how we stop the mashed tattie lot from voting!!
Yes, they can get married- I think that's stupid too! Cant buy a beer until they're 18, but can get married 🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

yes they can have sex... it's an individual risk. Doesn't impact the Nation,

No, they don't need experience to take an interest (I did at that age) but voting no, they don't have a wide enough knowledge.or the the experience to understand the impact of their vote.

No but I do think people over a certain age should not have been able to vote on Brexit

What age would that be?

No. Many children have opposing views to their parents. Image growing up a socialist and discovering your parents had used your proxy vote for Reform!

If you are not fully prepared to participate in our democracy, your position in criticising it loses some credibility.

I too am not minded to stand for office. However I too am not so dim as to then expect everyone else to construct a perfect system around me. I refer you to the baking hen again.

I'm quite happy to admit that my reticence does place certain limits on what I should expect.

But that's just me. I can see that most voters at the same as the tens of thousands of experts who go to football every Saturday safe in the knowledge that although they lack the physical stamina, the strength, the years of practise, the single minded dedication and the skill; they would be just as capable of playing for or managing a premier league team. It's not a perfect analogy, but it serves.

It is a zero-sum game. Take a family of mother, father and three children. If father takes all decisions then you cannot enfranchise mother without father losing absolute authority. Enfranchise all three children and the parents have lost joint decision-making authority.

By giving extra votes to people old enough to have children, you would actually be weakening the influence of the young (18 to 30) on elections.

But since we already accept a system where votes are unequal, then how does that matter ?

In our current (parliamentary) system, any vote that is not for the winning candidate is wasted. It counts for nothing. As you find out when the winners all club together to collectively forget you.

Decent parents vote for what's in their kids' interests anywhere, because they want what's best for them.

The tsunami of people turning down their pensions for improved child benefit being a clear example.

Bizarre suggestion.

Maybe the young people should use the vote they have.It’s never been easier to vote with postal voting.
Hardly anyone I know voted in our recent local elections, then the same people complaining about Reform winning.