AIBU to say that graduation ceremonies are not the place to make political statements?

[anythingbutlillies]

Hard hat on.

DC's graduation today. Fabulous day, but it did not sit well with me that a few chose to unfurl a flag / raise a scarf while they were on the stage.
Just no! So very selfish.

Interested to hear if I am being precious?

Astonishing contribution to the thread there.

No. It's marginally less boring than the ceremony, which it enlivens a bit, though I tend to agree it should be clamped down on because, kids being kids, that'll only encourage it

Of course you must be a Champagne swilling toff if you have a child who has been to university! 😂

You don't associate the only Jewish state in the world with "automatically Jewish" (sic)... Let me guess. You also do not see colour and believe #notallmen.

The thing is that the flag waver (ie “student”) in the past few years has chanted “Ooh Jeremy Corbyn” at Glastonbury, held up a BLM placard, shouted “Trans Rights are Human Rights” and thought about, but probably thought better of, spraying orange paint on an Old Master.

Just as the US students protested about Vietnam safe in the knowledge that they weren’t going anywhere, only those poor schmucks from Idaho or Mississippi.

Why? I don't think it matters that the gesture hasn't solved the crisis in the Middle East. I do think it matters that young people are making gestures, however futile, in support of political positions because it shows they're engaged.

And who cares if it ruins the occasion for others or makes some people uncomfortable hey?!

They’re not engaged, they’re just on the bandwagon. They’ll all be off on their nice hols next week.

Are you raising your voice for the young boys of Sudan? Children as young as four bring massacred in their villages because of the colour of their skin?
If not, maybe reflect on why.

Link here but it's extremely upsetting.

www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/09/darfur-atrocities-ethnic-cleansing-human-rights-watch-report-rsf-sudan?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Yeah. All those chanting from the river to the sea… I asked one which river to which sea…. They didn’t know 😂. They were just chanting what they’d heard. These people are not engaged in the issues.

Is continuing to live in your bubble at all times really more important than what Palestinians are going through now? If you were living in Gaza wouldn't you wonder who these people are around the world who are happily going on with their lives while they are dying, starving and losing their loved ones?

Yes it is, the same way that most people don’t spend their days thinking about the ongoing genocide and famine in Sudan (far more significant than Palestine), the way that climate change is going to immeasurably harm the Pacific Islands and countries like India, and the march of AI on the jobs market.

Holding up a keffiyeh at your graduation ceremony is the most pointless of acts. The Middle East has been a mess for decades and influential people & governments have made little progress. Even the Arab League can’t be bothered helping Palestinians. Sebastian from Bristol holding up his flag as he accepts his 2:1 in classics and job offer as a media buyer is purely performative.

Some thoughts.

1. I wish people would either try to understand Zionism or be quiet. Most Jews have Zionist beliefs, i.e. the right of Jews to live in safety in their ancient homeland. We see you using Zionist as a synonym for Jewish and we know exactly what you mean by it. See also "not all Zionists are Jewish".

Which leads me to,

1. Stop playing good Jew bad Jew. It's a tedious game.

1. Everybody unfurling a flag/shouting Free Palestine or other empty slogans in public should be prepared to give a half hour presentation on the history of conflict in the region (going way back before 1948 and without the use of Wikipedia). If you're so sure of who's right and wrong, you need to explain exactly how you reached your conclusion.

1. Flag waving in a political way has never achieved anything except nationalistic division. Flag waving at a graduation won't increase awareness, nor achieve peace. It will only promote a mass outbreak of eye rolling among people who just want to see their loved one collect a certificate.

1. Said this on another thread but it bears repeating. There is no right or wrong "side", there is only pro- or anti-violence. Be careful when you yell your slogans that you're not accidentally allying yourself with the wrong one.

Untill hamas has been got rid of there will never be peace , least we forget hamas run gaza . So Israel will defend it self , flag waving won't work , politicians getting together sending in a army of united nations troops and ridding gaza of terrorists would work , it's the only answer that would work to bring peace to gaza and Israel l am afraid. Iran a terrorist country are sending terrorists to kill the people of Israel, the terrorists s need removing then there can be peace ,at the moment it's tit for tat .

Would you also describe the graphic descriptions of the atrocities committed on 7 October as 'war porn'?

I think that's a fair question, and one that any society that permits protest has to deal with.

So, for instance, Stop Oil blockaded the M25 and caused all sorts of inconvenience and cost to thousands, including myself. It was very irritating, and I thought the gesture was pretty futile.

On the other hand, I can't think of any way to prevent that kind of thing that doesn't involve putting in place legal constraints that I think would be bad for our society and contradictory to our culture. I'm against that.

In the end, I think it's down to each of us to come up with a kind of general idea of what we'll agree with, what we'll tolerate, what we'll tolerate but be bloody annoyed about and what we don't think should be allowed.

The one in question - it doesn't bother me too much as protests go.

I think it's disrespectful to describe in detail the extreme violence and acts of torture carried out on people, yes, and to dwell ghoulishly on the after effects just so you can make a point on social media. Obviously there's some exception for official observers, such as journalists, but for the average person to be so explicit is unnecessary. I posted something appalling but I posted the link to the article and gave a warning. So often people seem to really enjoy going into gory details just so they can prove themselves morally superior.

I know right!
<Facepalm emoji>

Can we also get rid of Netanyahu (needs the war to stay in power and out of jail for corruption), Smotrich (messianic settler and self-declared “fascist homophobe”) and Ben Gvir (who embraced extremism so young that Israel’s domestic security forces barred him from serving in the country’s army as a teenager)?

'Student makes a statement shock-horror!'

In other news... Sky, blue. Water, wet.

Also...If you're offended by another country existing, that's a 'you' problem.

''@AmadeustheAlpaca · Yesterday 20:57
Assuming the flags etc were pro Palestinian, I wonder how that made Jewish students feel.''

Objecting to the systematic starving and killing of Palestinian civilians is not anti-jewish.

I have nothing against Jewish people but I do object to the behaviour of the Israeli government and so do many jewish people.

I have no issue with young people making their views known and thankfully we still have freedom of speech in this country.

So glad you have nothing against Jewish people, many thanks.

It's disingenuous to pretend that there is no anti semitic element to the pro-Palestine movement. By doing that, you once again separate Jews into "good Jew" (support the movement unconditionally) and "bad Jew" (are pro genocide/torture/killing little children). As ever the reality is a lot more nuanced and Jewish people are right to be wary at best. Why do you think that, post 7th October, so many of us choose not to disclose our Jewishness publicly?

To add, Jewish is a proper noun.

Is criticism of the far right Israeli Government and the conduct of the IDF always anti-semitic?

A Palestinian flag does not make anyone anti semitic, can you stop insinuating that it does.

I can guess at least one of the other ones.