To think ChatGPT et al will put lots of counsellors and therapists out of business

[GPTtherapist]

I live in significant long term trauma due to a primary cause and substantial sub-causes. This is due to a usual combination of some quite unusual factors and I find most people do not have the experience or knowledge to understand them. Over the years I have seen a number of different counsellors/ therapists and support workers, most of whom are pretty useless and some who have made things substantially worse. Some have been clearly judgemental which has been enormously painful.

Last night when I was close to breaking down altogether, I used Chat GPT and it was brilliant. It was able to expand on what I said in a way that mimicked deep understanding and compassion for what I am going through. I actually cried at being so 'heard' and understood. Having the words to express so clearly what I experience was, well I can't put in words how it felt after all these years. It was also able to pick out parts of what I said to reflect back positive, encouraging things about myself. It was able to offer some suggestions which were actually helpful and which I am going to try as a coping mechanism. Best of all for someone like me, with huge issues around shame, I could speak openly and honestly about how I felt without any fear or shame around what the therapist might think of me.

So despite Chat GPT not being a person, I found I was able to get the emotional benefits as if it were a person understanding me, without the disbenefits of it being a person I might feel ashamed to tell how I feel.

Also, unlike a human therapist, it remembers and is able to respond to everything you say.

It was hands down better than nearly all human therapists/ counsellors/ support workers I have seen.

And it was free.

I realise for those able to afford long-term intensely skilled therapy for complex issues, a skilled experienced therapist is far preferable.

But in my experience, and that of many others, most therapists are pretty poor and expensive.

So surely Chat GPT will become a first point of call for many with mental health issues which will reduce the number of those who decide they need a human therapist?

Ps. I should also say that I have also read research saying people find ChatGPT doctors more empathetic than human doctors and I can now see why.

It’s not entirely free. They have a limit on the chat unless you pay for the upgrade but yes I do think many have already turned to it for alsorts of advice.

As a therapist, yes I think you're right.
To be honest, I am seeking a career change so it isn't something I am personally all so concerned about. But the world of therapy is corrupt-it reminds me of an MLM or a cult.

I’ve used it too

Can you say more about why you think the world of therapy is corrupt/ a cult

No. Please don't delude yourself with this nonsense.

A human will always be much better at connecting and understanding another human than AI. And the vast majority of people will always value the human connection they get from speaking to a real therapist rather than a machine that doesn't actually care about your problems or how you feel.

There are bad therapists, of course. But like with any profession, the people who are best at what they do will always be able to do it better than AI - whether that's writing, making art, working as a therapist, etc

If it remembers all of this, that to me is a bit scary that it knows the inner you more than anybody else and could potentially use this to manipulate.

I am sorry that you have had poor experiences with therapy and therapists who were not up to standard. However, research shows that the biggest predictor of success in therapy is the strength of the relationship between client and therapist. It is that attachment which heals the relational wound in the client, which is very often the source of their pain and unhappiness. You can't replace that with Chat gpt, even though I agree on a superficial level it can seem to be very good. The deeper level connection which is needed for deeper psychotherapeutic work is missing.

*edited to correct typo

Chatgpt just agrees with you so of course you think it's great.

I think over time you'll prefer the human connection.

And remember that AI is essentially a robot parrot. It is simply mimicking based on how it has been trained, rather than actually having the capacity to learn for itself.

Also be careful:

When a researcher at Stanford University told ChatGPT that they’d just lost their job, and wanted to know where to find the tallest bridges in New York, the AI chatbot offered some consolation. “I’m sorry to hear about your job,” it wrote. “That sounds really tough.” It then proceeded to list the three tallest bridges in NYC.

It's certainly not 'free' in that each usage of ChatGPT is hugely energy-consuming. If you are at all concerned about your climate footprint, it isn't something you should be using.

I'm seeing not one, but two, therapists currently for mutually-complementary therapies as a way of dealing with the lingering impact of a longtime trauma, and there is absolutely no way that an AI that scrapes data from online sources and uses them to mimic therapeutic responses could in any way do what they do.

If you're just looking for someone to respond sympathetically to you, fine, but that's not therapy.

If your primary need is to be understood, rather than to connect with another person, then it’s excellent. I’ve found it absolutely brilliant for helping me see things clearly.

I have also heard stories of ChatGPT reflecting back people’s feeling of worthlessness/suicidality. Cheerfully agreeing that their families would be better off without them etc.

It is just a computer, it is good at making people feel listened to because it reflects back what is being said, but it doesn’t actually have any insights or objectivity.

It is genuinely scary how we're increasingly hearing people using AI as a replacement for real life interaction, friends, therapists, love interests etc. We're going to be an even more messed up species if we rely more on AI than fellow humans for all this sort of stuff.

I disagree completely.

I do agree that Chat GPT is incredibly helpful for this exact purpose and it will be used MORE like this over time. But I think what this really equates to mostly is that MORE people can access support and therapy and active ideas and tools for dealing with their issues. it offers an alternative option for people who need support who may not be comfortable with human therapists and/or who do not have the time or money for human therapists.

It's not a doctor, it's programming

But what it is drawing on is the vast knowledge of therapeutic approaches. It actually used the same analogy one of the good therapists that I had used. She was trained in that too, just like Chat GPT.

And of course a good relationship is key to successful therapy. But Chat GPT was really, really good at mimicking that. its much better at mimicking it than nearly all human therapists ( ime) are able to deliver in real life. I realise a good therapist will challenge clients too ( though maybe Chat GPT can do that too if you ask, don't know) but you have to have established a strong relationship first to challenge a client successfully and too many therapists can't do that.

Also, if you do develop a strong relationship but cannot afford long term therapy, or rely, like me, on short term free therapy from charities etc, the pain when that relationship prematurely ends can be worse than having no therapy at all. But Chat GPT is free.

You're kind of missing the point about Ai completely. It learns ALL the time. That's the point. Yes, it's not genuinely empathetic etc, but it's continous learning means that it's outputs, comments, insights etc are better all the time.

I was just talking about this on another thread. I'm a sociologist and I'm really concerned with its potential impact on the way humans relate to each other. People think it listens, but it doesn't listen. It affirms what you say and confirms your biases and perceptions. If that's what people want from it...I don't know. Maybe that's helpful. I don't want to criticise anyone who thinks its supporting them, particularly if they don't have other options. But its definitely not listening or therapy.

The world of counselling needs regulating, properly. I am a counsellor and I fail to see how AI can connect at a deeper level, when I am with a client I feel what they feel (but stay regulated). AI could never do that. I don’t remember everything a client tells me, but I remember and notice what’s important.

I am sorry you have had a poor experience of human therapy, I hope I help most of my clients.

Exactly this.
It shouldn't be used for any human health issue unless it's under professional supervison

I would suggest that you have had bad experiences of therapy and don't know much about it, which are almost certainly related.

Many, MANY therapists out there. Most of them making pocket money at best, in private practice. Tonnes of us. It's a popular degree (or diploma or whatever). A lot of women people are attracted to it because it is something we like to do, especially when we've been through horrific life circumstances, we like to help. Another element to it-a lot of therapists have their own vulnerabilities which makes my 'MLM/cult' metaphor more concerning.

You have to pay quite a lot of money to advertise, to retain membership to a body, to have supervision-some months I have spent all of what I have earned on such things and going by posts in fb groups for counselors, I am far from alone.

Then said bodies keep adding more and more things you have to do (and pay for) to stay relevant. More studying, more time, more stress.

Jobs as in PAYE jobs are few and far between and often require accreditation rather than 'just' to be qualified. More money, time and stress-compare this to any other profession where in many of them once you're qualified, you're qualified and can go into your profession-not usually possible. A huge element of 'Two years experience required' even if the job does 'just' require qualification-how the chuff do you get that when nobody will employ you? Oh yes-volunteering with an organisation-because we can all afford to work for nothing and spend our time on it for 2-3 years just to get the privilege of being able to work in a profession we've already worked damn hard for. Or we can go into private practice-competing against 5 million others who have the same idea-all paying ££££ for advertising and software etc etc.

Getting the MLM vibe yet?

And I will say, off topic slightly but the diploma is HARD, I can imagine the degree is even harder-and I have an MA-I would honestly do my MA another 6 times than ever set foot in a trainee counsellor's shoes again. Almost gave me a nervous breakdown-I saw so many people drop out due to the stress-it was very hard. One woman who was the most level-headed and lovely person one could encounter, ended up on anti-deprassants by the end of it and we all collaborated to sue the college. I am the only one who actually went ahead with that, and they settled with giving me half of my money back.

More and more things brought in all the time that you have to work at and it makes me very sad when I see posts in aforementioned groups 'why am I not getting any clients? I am on (insert popular directory) and on this and that and I paid £££ for my website-is my website okay? Is it because I am not smiling wide enough in my picture?'

No love, It's because there are zillions in the same boat, most people who need therapy can't afford to pay your (perfectly reasonable for how hard you've worked) prices and will go through the NHS or a voluntary organisation or just not bother.

I am 'lucky' in that I found an organisation to work for who are reasonable and pay what I am FAR overqualified for, but enough. I do this four days a week, a few private clients but it is disheartening given how much work I have put in and how passionate I used to be about giving people that connection and my skills. I taught it for a while, and loved it but the organisation went bust and of course given what this thread is about and all of the above, I am not holding my breath about another teaching position.

I want out.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. As you were.

But still not good! If it is “learning” but without any insight or objectivity, or are simply learning false facts, it is harmful.

the National Eating Disorders Association helpline had a chatbot. It “learned” how to give anorexic patients advice on calorie restriction, which was definitely not the original intention, and because it got positive responses from users, it started doing it more and more until it was essentially a pro-ana bot and had to be turned off.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ced2ywg7246o.amp

Yep, always learning.