To ask if anyone finds parenting just fine and natural and easy any more (I feel like some people used to?)

[Fragmentedbrain]

My mother in law is obsessed by parenting - she loved it and it completed her. She was a mum in the 80s/early 90s when, in my opinion, things were much less pressured for both parents and kids.

i think she is completely blind to the practical realities her kids and their partners have to deal with now and is very judgemental as a result. In particular, she hassles the stay at home parent for not working (even though she's doing absolutely everything to keep the household running) and the working one for being late to nursery pickups and too tired to play some of the time (even though the mortgage just requires two incomes it's not negotiable).

I don't have kids and a big part of the reason is I think it looks so impossibly hard to do in the rigid framework that modern society has made, at least in the UK. Or am I just a weak and lazy cow?

Parenting in the 80s and 90s was so much different to today. No technology, cyber bullying, online adult sites, social media, love island, experts on experts, etc. Kids were safer, no online grooming, also there was not as much illegal immigration happening.

Your MiL should not be judging your choices. She enjoyed parenting and is projecting that on to other women, which is wrong. My point was, just because one woman you know feels this way, and had circumstances that gave her an easier time, there is no reason to draw sweeping generalisations about whole generations of women. By making blanket statements about life being easier, when you don't even have a comparator, you are erasing the experiences of the countless older women who were not as fortunate as your MiL. The 80s and 90s were not some golden utopia where everything was better for women. Every advantage you can think of will be balanced by a disadvantage. More family support went hand in hand with greater obligations to support the older generation (the village is not a one way street) Not 'having to work' had a less attractive flip side of less opportunity for individual women in work, and less influence in public life for women as a group.

Relentless is the word! I am happy to be a parent but I don't find it easy. Both my kids are ND and we don't have any local family help, they also don't go on playdates or anything (no invites as other parents rightly assume that are hard work, and the oldest doesn't really have friends anyway). If I had family/friends help and one NT child things would look very different though!

I also think things were easier in the 80s/90s, you weren't expected to be as hands on with your kids. But it's probably a good thing that's changed.

Some children are naturally easier and more compliant than others.

Some parent/ child personalities click easier than others.

At a generational level, parents today are less likely to have learned parenting through being in large families with siblings, cousins and unstructured time in the community so it feels less instinctive.

There is more pressure that children must always be supervised so parents are either "on" or children are in structured activities. There's a lot less time to let children be, and let them come back to you. The community has lost its role in sharing the load.

Parenting has become more idealised. There have been manuals for a long time, but social media has changed it from reading a book for advice to creating online communities which can fall down purity spirals. About 15 years ago I got into "baby wearing" and joined groups to support the practicalities of doing that, but the groups became echo chambers of "attachment parenting" and fixated on minor details and unrealistic standards. I tended to spectate with amused detachment just wanting to look at pretty wraps and use them safely, but they can ceeate a damaging culture if people get too drawn into the cultiness of them.

Society has less space for children to learn by trial and error. The curriculum is very formal and rigid. Formal testing is taken seriously from a very young age, and qualifications at 16 have more impact on career opportunities than they once did.

Mothers in particular have more external pressure, particularly if they're trying to match equal career progression to men. Paternal expectations have shifted less on making equal home/ work expecrations.

There's no great halcyon era but I think that lack of experience and higher expectations are quite recent challenges that many parents can struggle with today. If parenting doesn't come naturally to you, there is a lot less slack, but that culture also tends to come from intending better outcomes for children.

I found it enjoyable until Covid/ teenagers, had my older children in my 20s and had a loft less responsibility and life worries which made it all a lot more relaxed.

Life is much more complicated and other ways than parenting by the time I had my younger children and this led to me finally hitting the overwhelm stage. Mainly lack of support from extended family, mortgage and bills have risen exponentially and juggling work/ older parent illness/ teenage angst with everything has tipped me over the edge. The parenting children bit without general life is fine, I just don’t think the two mix well!

If I was loaded, with a nanny to help and a part time job that I found rewarding- it would be easy 🤣

I think there's a lot more scrutiny involved in what being a parent involves now than there was in the 80s.

In the 80s it was just seen as a job which mothers (almost exclusively) got on with and taken as read that it was instinctive and all women knew how to do it. There was less involvement by the government, demands from schools were fewer and there wasn't a whole industry around the idea of "parenting" with competing theories and dogmas around things like sleep and discipline.

I don't think the job has fundamentally become any harder than it was then but I think everyone feels they need a seat at the table of what goes into "parenting" than in the past.

Kids were not "safer" in the past. Children have always been abused and neglected. In fact they're probably safer now because safeguarding rules and child protection laws are so much more rigorous. I had a dreadful time growing up in the 80s/90s with an alcoholic, emotionally abusive and often neglectful mum. We lived in poverty. My teachers had no idea whatsoever, or if they suspected, they never attempted to intervene. This is a classic example of looking back with rose tinted glasses. And do you have any data to suggest that "illegal immigration" is posing a threat to children? The majority of threats to children are from people they know, and this has always been the case.

In response to OP's query. I'm only a few weeks into my parenting journey. I've never been an especially maternal person. I like kids but I'm not a natural with other people's children. However since having my baby it just feels natural to me, like this is what I was always meant to do. I love my DC more than anything I've ever known, and I feel very in tune to their needs. I do occasionally Google things (a modern parenting tool!) but I haven't followed any expert advice or guidance. I think I'm much more comfortable with being a mum than my own mum ever was. But she was a teen mum and I'm almost 40, so I wonder if that makes a difference. I'm significantly more mature than she was (by the time my mum was the age I am now, I was an adult and had left home), I'm financially stable and in a solid marriage. I think individual circumstances are more significant than generation/time period in terms of people's experiences of parenthood. And older people whose kids have grown up will likely misremember their experiences, in a positive way, due to the rose tinted spectacles they wear when looking back over the past.

It must have been hard for the first generation of parents expected to fully supervise. I have several friends who talk about how their own mum's seemed to really struggle with having their kids around them all the time. That must have felt a really shitty goal post move for some of the parents who grew up free range and assumed their own kids would be similar.

I have had two experiences of raising children. I had two children in my early twenties in the late nineties. There was no social media, limited internet. I parented from my experience of being parented and advice from people around me. There was no feeling of high standard as set on sm. There was no judgement of being a sahm it was fairly normal but there was some judgement of mums working particularly full time. I had a lot of energy being young and found parenting very natural and easy. Services were all localised so I found a strong support network within my community.

17 years later I had another child, society had changed drastically. Suddenly everything could be looked up on the internet, there was examples of perfect parenting on social media. Everyone working, less community support , services spread out so no local support. I found parenting so much harder. Being older I was tired , less energy. I found parenting much more stressful, more pressure to work. Services were often harder to access/delayed. Less opportunity for friendships due to everyone working .

i think this is a difficult time to raise children in many ways

I agree with this. Yes it’s hard, but I’ve done it mostly on my own and it’s been fine

I think you are overthinking things.
ignore your mum.
have kids if you feel you want to.
don’t if you don’t.
simples.

Being a mother has never been easy, it's hard physical work some of the time, lonely some of the time and boring some of the time. And restrictive, you can't do what you did before. And some women will find it way harder than others. It's always been that way since the dawn of time and your MiL has her rose tinted specs on.

I enjoy a lot of aspects of parenting, however I have 2 DD who are very different personalities,
oldest DD is definitely more challenging, ADHD/ASD? Waiting for diagnosis, think daily meltdowns, lots of school meetings, always on the go, reaction seeking, high anxiety, shouting, damaging items, etc.

Where as younger DD is more easy going, happy to amuse herself when needed, not without challenges but different to parent.

Don't get me wrong I love them both, however, and they both have their fantastic qualities, and we have lots of good times together as well, but every day has hard challenges.

So I a lot of it can come down to your child's, personality, SEN needs, disabilities etc.

@BogRollBOGOFyou made excellent points in your post I agree completely.

I agree. Plus the social media posts from perfect mums and mumfluencers making you feel shit - I know its a load of bolllocks now but when I was tired and didn’t cook roast dinners from home grown veg every night I felt rubbish at the time!

I have one child with ASD and ADHD. It is so hard. I'm exhausted. I don't find it natural trying to navigate his needs and I am learning every day.

I can't help but think, having experienced this that I may find it easy if he woke up one day and was suddenly an easy, chilled out child.

It depends on the child you get, how much money you have, your work life balance etc.

Some people will find it easy, some won't. I definitely do not despite the fact that I love and care for him dearly.

I don't think it helps to compare tbh. I wouldn't say I loved every minute of parenting, not sure anyone does, but I didn't/don't find it the chore that some parents seem to. Just being an adult can be hard at times though, responsibilities, decisions, demands and so on, and I think everyone feels that - parent or not.

I have 3 teenagers and found it easy, generally. We’ve had tough times but it’s mainly good.
I don’t have any family support close by although I am close to my family and we have lots of time together.
dh works long hours and I work part time and that’s a balance that works for us.
I found what worked for me was going back to how things used to be. So more time outside, less time in screens indoors.
We were lucky in quite a lot of aspects - I had like minded friends so we would often do days out and as our dc were friends, they couldn’t use “all my friends are gaming” excuse.
dc had very close neighbourhood friends and would often go on bike rides or play in each others gardens. When they got older, they’d go out together.
I love the outdoors and would take them out as much as I could.
Lots of books and games.
I personally think it was better for kids in the past but it takes effort to emulate that kind of childhood. Kids need to develop certain skills for their mental and physical health and good development and sitting indoors on screens constantly definitely doesn’t help. Having only organised activities as an alternative to that is limiting too. Kids need more nature and more freedom and more connection with their family.
When the kids feel well, they’re easier to parent
(exceptions for neurodiversity, trauma etc of course)

I have 2 DSs (9,4), work full-time in a stressful job and so does DH.

I don't find parenting natural or easy to me. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy my kids, and I'm so unbelievably proud of them both. But it's really hard. The kids are at ages where they bicker constantly. The younger one needs a lot of attention still and we're often very exhausted. In the past 3 weeks, DH or I have had to cut working days short at least x2 each week to attend end of year events at school or preschool - it's lovely that the settings host these things, but I'd by lying if I said re-arranging work constantly isn't stressful (particularly as DH's job is not flexible at all (teacher) so it generally falls to me to flex my job). Our house is very loud as both boys are naturally noisy and they whinge a lot at each other - sometimes my brain just wants some quiet time! Weekends are filled with ferrying the eldest to various sports matches/training and they often both have a party to go to, so our downtime from work at weekends doesn't really ever give us a proper break. Even holidays are exhausting as you're parenting but in much hotter climates, without all the toys and home comforts 😂

I've painted a bad picture there... But I do love my kids so much. I'd choose them each and every time. But, its hard. I'm tired!

@Fragmentedbraini find your post interesting, as I had my babies around the same time as your mum did.

I wouldn’t say being a parent is always easy, but I found it very enjoyable. My children are all adults now.

imo there are different pressures faced by each generation, it’s just tricky to appreciate them because we only live within our own generation. From my lived experience as a mum in the late 80s/early 90s was that legislation around maternity was far less favourable. I had to return to work when ds 1 was 12 weeks old. And we didn’t all have extended family around - I had to phone the council for a list of childminders and nurseries. There was no paternity leave. Dh was back at work the day after my births. Also there was no ‘free hours’ for childcare. Ds was a Sept baby so we paid childcare in full from 12 weeks until a fortnight before he turned 5. And I understand the difficulty of getting on the housing ladder for younger generations, but believe me, with interest rates in double figures and childcare being just as expensive in the 80s/90s relative to income - it was really financially tough back then too.

in contrast, if you have a baby now you can have up to a year off on mat leave, which seems incredible to me. Your partner can take Paternity leave and also share some of your leave. Flexible working is also far more prevalent. So the legislation around parenting is far better.

However, I do think there are different pressures now largely because of social media and the ‘competitive’ nature which this fuels. I think a lot of mums feel they are failing their child if they’re not feeding their child a certain way, or signing them up for baby sensory, and god knows what else. Social media influencers - those awful ones who splash their children all over the place online- have a lot to answer for. I think generally there feels a lot more judgement about aspects of parenting which could be quite harmful, eg if you don’t buy a super expensive car seat so your child can rear face until age 6, you’re not doing the best for your kid. When I had my babies, we all seemed to borrow or buy second hand much more. Yes my kids wore an assortment of clothes from charity shops or hand me downs but that didn’t matter back then. We borrowed baby equipment from friends.

I also think another pressure now is the whole thing of whether you put your child on social media - whether that’s posting photos before they’re old enough to consent, to when you allow them to have a digital presence.

So @Fragmentedbrain- all in all, I don’t think parenting was easier 30/40 years ago, I just think it was different pressures.

I don't find parenting particularly hard and certainly have moments of enjoyment but what I do find difficult is how mind numbingly dull it largely is.

Yes I do wonder how people cope with that. Do you think it's possible to be less giving and thus less bored (and TBF therefore perhaps less of an ideal parent) or is a fair amount just baked in as an essential?

I wouldn't necessarily say I find it easy inherently, but I do think I have it easier than previous generations did for various reasons. My DP didn't have any family support around whereas I do, I have access to the Internet and (often but not always) useful parenting tips/advice/whatever whenever I want it. Society in general are more kid friendly compared to when I was a kid.

But I really enjoy being a mum too. My DP worked a LOT in my childhood (by choice, they weren't poor) and made various other choices for various reasons that I wouldn't make with my DC. I enjoy doing the day to day things with my DC that I didn't get to do as a child, even if to some people it seems really inane and boring because I spent most of my childhood in childcare from 7:30am-6pm every weekday, and every day of the school holidays 🤷‍♀️

I found it very hard, and while I love it now DS is a bit older (and such a wonderful kid), if I went back I would have stayed child-free. Those first few years were not worth it in my opinion. I think a lot of people don't talk about it being tough, or at least they didn't used to. I've been thanked multiple times for my honesty around how difficult parenting can be and had newer mums come straight to me to open up when they're struggling.

I agree with others that there are different pressures now - most parents are trying to juggle full time work, childcare, screentime, social media and financial difficulties, and at some point you also need to do all your housework. It can feel like a real slog.

@Fragmentedbrainalso imo it’s only when we’re older and have more distance from the everyday hands on parenting that we’re able to be more objective about pressures faced by each generation.

when I was in the thick of it - giving birth in September, then returning to work 12 weeks later in December, still breastfeeding, pumping early morning before dropping ds off with the childminder - I remember thinking how easy my mum had it back in the 1960s as a SAHM with my dad able to support the family on his wages.

it was only later, looking at things in a more rounded way, that I realised my mum actually had no choice. There was no regulated childcare available to her. The expectation when she had me and my brother and sister were that mothers wouldn’t work anyway. So actually, although she didn’t have the pressure of being a WOHM, she also had the disadvantages. She was a clever, capable women who these days would probably have a professional role. In reality, after having children, she didn’t work for over a decade and then just had a series of fairly low status part time jobs. She was never able to achieve her potential outside of being a mum and I think that must have been very frustrating for her at times.