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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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38
PhilippaGeorgiou · 08/07/2025 12:59

RainbowZebraWarrior · 08/07/2025 12:38

Yes, in other words he thinks he's far too intelligent for such piffle.

It's not my cup of tea either, but that isn't a comment on what I think of the intelligence of people who read it, liked it, or believed it. It is a comment about what I like to read. Nothing more.

Daisydoesnt · 08/07/2025 12:59

champagnetrial · 08/07/2025 12:40

I thought this was a nice, measured comment by an instagram user on the PSPA instagram post announcing they have cut ties with RW.

I'm reposting it here as it is in the public domain, so I think it's OK (I've bolded the last bit because I thought it was a particularly good point):

I am so saddened by this article. Ray and Moth have been such a beacon of hope for my husband who has CBD and I. We’ve read all her books. I don't want to pass judgment based on this article. I am not condoning the allegations but the article is very one sided and Ray’s voice is missing from the narrative. For whatever reason, they had gotten into debt and made serious mistakes. I think that Moth's ‘distant relative' was the ‘Cooper’ in her book. He was a loan shark and they paid back their debts and lost their home in the process. It seems to me that they have already paid for their mistakes.
The truth is that Ray’s books have done so much to bring awareness to CBD/PSP, and Ray and Moth have made a huge contribution with fundraising for PSPA. This cannot be minimised.
She has also brought awareness to the plight of the homeless community with such compassion and has fundraised for their cause too. And her books have highlighted the importance of nature and the natural world, and our connection to it and how our actions are impacting wildlife.
Honestly, I am so sorry that this article will take away all the good that has come out of her words.
With regards to Moth’s CBD diagnosis, We bumped into Ray and Moth on their Thames Path fundraiser walk last year (as they passed through our town). Moth was walking with a stick and his stride was unstable so he definitely has some sort of movement disorder. He also didn’t finish the walk as he ended up in hospital. They were both very down to earth and kind.
I very much believe Moth has a CBS diagnosis but since no one knows what causes the condition he may truly have a slower progressing version. Or maybe the long gruelling walks have played a part in slowing the progression of his condition. There is plenty of science showing that exercise, fasting, and being in nature to calm the nervous system are therapeutic. We just don’t know. None of the neurologists that the journalist interviewed have examined Moth so we should not make any judgement on his condition. That is cruel.
3 likes

I find the comment on Instagram naive, and yes it smells to me of the Winns or their PR team trying out messages to see how they’ll go down.

Winn’s voice is lacking from the narrative of the Observer article because she declined to comment other than the wish-washy “this is the true story of our journey”. She was given the opportunity to refute the claims made in the article. But she didn’t - or couldn’t. That is why she isn’t in the article.

And it’s a push calling it a narrative, it’s a forensic and well-evidenced examination more like.

”For whatever reason they got into debt” is disingenuous to a staggering extent. She stole from her boss, a small business, that left th almost unable to pay wages. She stole! You can’t just wave that fact away with a “for whatever reason”.

Uricon2 · 08/07/2025 13:01

Bruisername · 08/07/2025 12:43

The implications she is making about cooper are unfounded and this person clearly has a bias

poor them getting into financial trouble but fails to mention it’s because sally stole from her employer

ETA this seems like the basis of their rebuttal and they’re testing it out

Edited

Agree. I can imagine a defensive wail of "But so much gooooooood came out of it!"

Also, gotten into debt is different from "money embezzled from someone who trusted you over a period of years" in my world.

outofofficeagain · 08/07/2025 13:03

Daisydoesnt · 08/07/2025 12:59

I find the comment on Instagram naive, and yes it smells to me of the Winns or their PR team trying out messages to see how they’ll go down.

Winn’s voice is lacking from the narrative of the Observer article because she declined to comment other than the wish-washy “this is the true story of our journey”. She was given the opportunity to refute the claims made in the article. But she didn’t - or couldn’t. That is why she isn’t in the article.

And it’s a push calling it a narrative, it’s a forensic and well-evidenced examination more like.

”For whatever reason they got into debt” is disingenuous to a staggering extent. She stole from her boss, a small business, that left th almost unable to pay wages. She stole! You can’t just wave that fact away with a “for whatever reason”.

Edited

They weren't debts though. It was money that she stole that she had to pay back. That's not poor financial judgement, it's a deliberate and planned crime.

Thebelleofstmarys · 08/07/2025 13:04

Orangesandlemons77 · 08/07/2025 12:34

Yes, especially if consultants are recommending it to patients.

If any of my consultants attempted to peddle such unscientific drivel to me , I would be beyond furious and really doubt their understanding of the conditions they are there to help with . Worrying .

Bruisername · 08/07/2025 13:05

Well I’ve seen a comment that the powers that be are trying to discredit her because they are in hoc to the pharmaceutical companies when we all know natural remedies are the answer

WhatterySquash · 08/07/2025 13:06

TreeTopCat · 08/07/2025 11:28

Interesting, isn’t it? I think some of this is because of the bizarre political situation we live in where, in order to stay in the “good people” camp, one is expected to espouse ridiculous beliefs. If you don’t, you are labelled as a “bad person”, racist, fascist etc etc. For example, up to a few weeks ago good person status required us to believe that some women have penises.

People find this situation very stressful. They can’t use their own instincts and rational thought to decide what is true and if they accidentally espouse an “unacceptable” view they risk becoming a “bad person”. Hence a) not seeing what is staring them in the face and 2) attacking anyone who tries to point out obvious truths.

I was thinking the same about all this book club stuff. It sounds like they are a breeding ground for purity spirals and attacking wrongthink, when it should (IMO) be just about having a nice bookish chat with different views aired.

I've never been in one but a relative is and encountered the admonishment and anger when she questioned whether certain views of prostitution were really feminist. Thinking prostitution is great and empowering is on the "good person" list it seems!

All the people who have been ostracised from book groups for having questions / cynical takes should start their own Cynics/Awkward Questions Allowed book group.

Aspanielstolemysanity · 08/07/2025 13:06

Uricon2 · 08/07/2025 13:01

Agree. I can imagine a defensive wail of "But so much gooooooood came out of it!"

Also, gotten into debt is different from "money embezzled from someone who trusted you over a period of years" in my world.

As someone with a rare condition I can sort of understand mixed feelings about someone who had managed to increase awareness of it.

However, the awareness raising in this instance has to be balanced against the harm of misleading people about what life with the condition is really like

Pinty · 08/07/2025 13:09

RainbowZebraWarrior · 08/07/2025 12:38

Yes, in other words he thinks he's far too intelligent for such piffle.

He isn't saying that. I haven't read it either but not because I'm too intelligent it's just not the sort of book I would enjoy. I prefer fiction with food plots and interesting characters. Travel memoirs and overcoming adversity stories just don't interest me, nor to biographies or histories.

Interestingly my daughter did try to read it because someone recommended it to her but she gave up because she didn't like the way it was written and she found it boring.

PhilippaGeorgiou · 08/07/2025 13:10

Daisydoesnt · 08/07/2025 12:59

I find the comment on Instagram naive, and yes it smells to me of the Winns or their PR team trying out messages to see how they’ll go down.

Winn’s voice is lacking from the narrative of the Observer article because she declined to comment other than the wish-washy “this is the true story of our journey”. She was given the opportunity to refute the claims made in the article. But she didn’t - or couldn’t. That is why she isn’t in the article.

And it’s a push calling it a narrative, it’s a forensic and well-evidenced examination more like.

”For whatever reason they got into debt” is disingenuous to a staggering extent. She stole from her boss, a small business, that left th almost unable to pay wages. She stole! You can’t just wave that fact away with a “for whatever reason”.

Edited

I agree - the Observer does not publish without giving their key figure a right of reply. I suspect that the problem is that so many people felt inspired or loved the narrative that it is very hard for them to them let go of what they felt. Especially for those who have CBD. I am disabled (and a cynic) but with nothing as terrible as these people, but whilst I would be wildly sceptical of anyone advocating a "snake oil" cure or reversal, I can certainly understand how people can become invested in wanting to believe it. Changing that belief is like ripping away a support mechanism for themselves.

Blaming the article for the current situation is unreasonable - apart from anything else don't people with disabilities have enough to contend with without having frauds pretend to conditions they do not have? The fact he may have some other condition is irrelevant. Witness the threads just of this site alone about disabled people being frauds or exaggerating their illnesses to see the damage that publically lying about your disability / condition does to everyone.

placemats · 08/07/2025 13:11

I've been in a book club way back in the noughties and if a book was rubbish we all had now hesitation in saying so.

Then we got on with catching up with each other.

Daisydoesnt · 08/07/2025 13:15

outofofficeagain · 08/07/2025 13:03

They weren't debts though. It was money that she stole that she had to pay back. That's not poor financial judgement, it's a deliberate and planned crime.

Yes I agree!

TorroFerney · 08/07/2025 13:16

Merrymouse · 08/07/2025 08:56

Also, it’s not yet clear whether the publishers will pay any penalty.

Even if they decide to pull the next book, they won’t be returning the profits made from the first three.

Marina Hyde suggested that a hospital somewhere will be getting a new neurological wing out of this when the publisher makes a hefty donation to charity and sues to get money back from the couple.

Bruisername · 08/07/2025 13:19

Has she really made that much money that they could fund a neuro wing?

ZiggyPlaysGuitarrr · 08/07/2025 13:20

Regarding the comment shared up thread from the Instagram page of the PSPA. I notice that the commenter has a very small number of followers and only one post (which is private) so I agree it could well be the Winns/Walkers or their people.

taylorsfritz · 08/07/2025 13:20

Uricon2 · 08/07/2025 13:01

Agree. I can imagine a defensive wail of "But so much gooooooood came out of it!"

Also, gotten into debt is different from "money embezzled from someone who trusted you over a period of years" in my world.

I agree, it’s the Lance Armstrong defence of ‘I did so much for charity you need to ignore the other stuff’. Also provided a shield for Savile.

At some point raising money and awareness isn’t enough to mitigate the damage of their actions.

outofofficeagain · 08/07/2025 13:21

Bruisername · 08/07/2025 13:19

Has she really made that much money that they could fund a neuro wing?

She probably hasn't but I bet the publishers have.

Orangesandlemons77 · 08/07/2025 13:21

So the publisher could sue the couple is that correct?

nomas · 08/07/2025 13:23

champagnetrial · 08/07/2025 12:40

I thought this was a nice, measured comment by an instagram user on the PSPA instagram post announcing they have cut ties with RW.

I'm reposting it here as it is in the public domain, so I think it's OK (I've bolded the last bit because I thought it was a particularly good point):

I am so saddened by this article. Ray and Moth have been such a beacon of hope for my husband who has CBD and I. We’ve read all her books. I don't want to pass judgment based on this article. I am not condoning the allegations but the article is very one sided and Ray’s voice is missing from the narrative. For whatever reason, they had gotten into debt and made serious mistakes. I think that Moth's ‘distant relative' was the ‘Cooper’ in her book. He was a loan shark and they paid back their debts and lost their home in the process. It seems to me that they have already paid for their mistakes.
The truth is that Ray’s books have done so much to bring awareness to CBD/PSP, and Ray and Moth have made a huge contribution with fundraising for PSPA. This cannot be minimised.
She has also brought awareness to the plight of the homeless community with such compassion and has fundraised for their cause too. And her books have highlighted the importance of nature and the natural world, and our connection to it and how our actions are impacting wildlife.
Honestly, I am so sorry that this article will take away all the good that has come out of her words.
With regards to Moth’s CBD diagnosis, We bumped into Ray and Moth on their Thames Path fundraiser walk last year (as they passed through our town). Moth was walking with a stick and his stride was unstable so he definitely has some sort of movement disorder. He also didn’t finish the walk as he ended up in hospital. They were both very down to earth and kind.
I very much believe Moth has a CBS diagnosis but since no one knows what causes the condition he may truly have a slower progressing version. Or maybe the long gruelling walks have played a part in slowing the progression of his condition. There is plenty of science showing that exercise, fasting, and being in nature to calm the nervous system are therapeutic. We just don’t know. None of the neurologists that the journalist interviewed have examined Moth so we should not make any judgement on his condition. That is cruel.
3 likes

It’s not ‘measured’ to say they got into debt, it’s a white wash. They stole and lied about it.

And then hypocritically talked about writing with honesty.

Bruisername · 08/07/2025 13:24

I suppose they need to prove a loss.

as I understand it they have no legal obligation to refund people who bought the book so the only possible loss is on the book coming out in October?

and agree that raising money for charity is often used as a shield and is invariably not their money.

and actually this is a win win for the charity because it’s back in the news and I think a lot of people will find out about the condition and people may donate as well

TorroFerney · 08/07/2025 13:25

MissPeachyKeen · 08/07/2025 12:36

Re The Rest Is Entertainment, amused at how often Richard Osman felt the need to inform everyone how he's not read it because it's "not [his] cup of tea"

I don’t think he’s much of an outdoor enthusiast though is he, he’s said that before he can’t really see which may make some stuff dangerous!

I didn’t think he was saying that to distance himself or look superior.

Thebelleofstmarys · 08/07/2025 13:26

Bruisername · 08/07/2025 13:05

Well I’ve seen a comment that the powers that be are trying to discredit her because they are in hoc to the pharmaceutical companies when we all know natural remedies are the answer

Erm...no "we" don't all know " natural remedies are the answer .". I for one would be dead without pharmaceutical intervention so I would ask this person making this ridiculous statement - please do not speak on my behalf.

Someone suggested last evening I should have my air quality checked at home as that may be the reason I have incurable life altering conditions . If only it were that simple ...

Honestly, guff like this is so insulting to unwell people. Gives me the rage .

nomas · 08/07/2025 13:27

ZiggyPlaysGuitarrr · 08/07/2025 13:20

Regarding the comment shared up thread from the Instagram page of the PSPA. I notice that the commenter has a very small number of followers and only one post (which is private) so I agree it could well be the Winns/Walkers or their people.

I’m surprised a Mumsnetter found it, unless they were actively looking for it.

Fandango52 · 08/07/2025 13:27

BearPear · 08/07/2025 09:09

I’ve booked tickets to see the film next week!
We booked before this all broke after we have walked a few miles on the south west coast path. I knew the film would show some of the places we visited and was interested by that - do we know if they actually did the whole walk?

I think it’s still worth going to see the film, if you’re up for that. I haven’t read the film - although probably will now - but have seen the film. I really liked it - particularly GA and JI’s performances and the shots of the landscape in Devon and Cornwall.

timestressed · 08/07/2025 13:28

In The Guardian an article from May 2025 about Audible version of TSP is layered as Fiction now.

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