To think Bereavement Leave Rights are unfair

[NameChange202526]

It’s great that an early miscarriage will now mean a statutory right to time off. But surely the sudden death of, say a parent or sibling should also give the same basic rights?

I agree when I worked aa a nurse in the NHS their policy was very similar a couple of days for grandparents and more for s parent , I don't know wether it's changed now but a lot was assumed.

Not by law they don't.

Problem is they are running a business. If they took into account all differing circumstances (and there will be many ) in a legal capacity - the business would just crash. Plus it'd be open to abuse by the usual suspects who always abuse lenient policies.

Most employers, will take your individual circumstances into consideration. Worse come to worse (although not ideal) there is always the option of taking unpaid leave.

I know some might scoff and come out with "it is just a cat" etc when you lose a beloved pet... but pet loss hits different and it hits hard.
I have know some people to go into an awful depression when they lost a pet. Not eating or sleeping. They could not work... they could not function.

And very very many employers do not give any paid sick leave, and currently there are three unpaid waiting days before statutory sick pay, and people on low pay or part time often don't even qualify for that!

There isn't "always the option of unpaid leave", employers do not have to allow unpaid leave and many specifically do not allow it.

Indeed. Did you not read the final.sentence of my post?

I did wonder this. I had two. I think it's more common to have one than to not.

Plus how early is an early miscarriage? There's a world of difference between a chemical pregnancy picked up by testing early and miscarrying at 12 weeks.

It's a good idea but I also wonder how it will work in reality.

And I hate to say it but it's also wide open to abuse as there's nothing in your medical records before you'd reach a booking in appointment. We'd all like to think no one would but it's something impossible to prove.

Yes you would:

https://www.gov.uk/parental-bereavement-pay-leave/check-if-youre-eligible

"Partner of...."

Yes, I was just adding the part about how statutory sick pay works.

I was thinking the same earlier!
It's absolutely appalling and an insult how little paid time off people get after a bereavement.
I doubt anybody would be ready to return to work after 2 measley weeks if they lost someone close to them, and if it was a child I am guessing it could take many months/years before someone felt able to function enough to return to work.

I suppose people have to keep getting doctors notes or taking sick leave which must be so stressful to navigate.I recall a close friend doing so when her sibling passed away.

Yet the government is fine paying out regular monthly payments for pensions, benefits, maternity leave.....surely bereaved people are entitled to regular support payments too!

This is where it's tricky isn't it....it can't just assume that someone 'close' is a mother, father, sibling, parent or child.

Because it could be a neighbour,friend,colleague or not even a human that a person is closest to! Also some people are involved in witnessing upsetting scenarios where someone has died which although they might not know them must be incredibly traumatic.

I imagine it’s the physical demand and recovery. Birthing, Heavy bleeding, Hormones, maybe an d&c is needed. Ectoptic surgery. That on top of grieving. So I’ve voted YABU.

That said, I do agree one should get compassionate leave for close relatives. We definitely have a compassionate leave policy for direct relatives in my company.

Humans are complicated so policies struggle to fit our lives well enough. I lost both my parents before I was working and have one relative left. When they die I will be on my knees but they certainly wouldn’t count as close on a family tree. My company only gives you 2/3 days if you lose a spouse though, on paper, let alone any other adult relative. In reality managers and HR advisers are decent humans who will sign off on compassionate leave but it all remains at their discretion.

I think part of the problem is that so many companies and managers are afraid to manage.

Policies should be able to be flexible because managers should know their staff well. And they should be able to say "oi don't be a dick Peter, that's your 8th granny to have died... take annual leave or get your arse in" to people who take the piss. Same as they should for people who take the piss with breaks, wfh piss taking, lazy working etc. Many places now don't have managers who can, or are allowed to manage.

Then you have companies that just have no care for staff at all.

That's why we end up needing set policies, which then give no flexibility for individual circumstance.

(And complaining colleagues would also be an issue - I absolute had a colleague who would have complained if I had been given parent level time off when my Nana died because she only got grandparent level. That she hadn't seen her grandparent for 15 years and mine was my basically my mother wouldn't have mattered)

Teachers are entitled to a day off for the death of a spouse, parent, sibling or child, and a day for the funeral. We can’t take annual leave as it doesn’t exist.

It’s quite hard to go to work while bleeding heavily from a miscarriage and stomach pains.

At my workplace people have taken a couple of weeks off for a parent passing, paid. Anymore than that is unpaid but approved.
There should be statutory leave for both sad eventualities.

A miscarriage is very different to losing a parent or sibling. Your body and health also go through trauma, it can take a week or two for it to complete and you need time to heal, it's more like sick leave for women.

Basically this.

When I saw the thread title I thought how on earth is it unfair but now when I read the explanation I feel OP has a strong point.

I have enormous sympathy for women having miscarriages but it’s worth noting that bereavement of other types can also cause physical ill health. Again, it’s a lot murkier to tie that to the death as the link is not as physically direct but the effects can be extreme.

I agree with you. I had 3 weeks off sick after my miscarriage. I’ll need a month or more when my mum eventually dies.

When my mum was dying my NHS manager said she could give me a day off when she dies and a day off for the funeral. I got signed off by my GP eventually.

We're all different.
I had a loss at 7 weeks on a business trip, it happened in the night and I got up and gave the planned presentation the following morning.
When I had a loss at 17 weeks, I had a week off, and self certified, even though the hospital gave me a sick note for a fortnight.
When DH's father died very suddenly, he had 10 days but much of that was looking after his mother.
When my father died, I had a five and a half year old and a two year old. They were my work and it couldn't stop.

I have said to countless staff over the years in quasi public sector organisations where there is full pay for six months then half pay for six months "to get themselves signed off for bereavement related stress for a few weeks if they need it and when the compassionate leave runs out". I also say, because I have to, that if they disclose my advice I will have to deny it.

Compassionate leave where I work is usually three days but at the manager's discretion. Where it gets tricky is when Joan's mum, who she has looked after for 20 years, dies and you want to say to Joan "have a month, be kind to yourself", but you also have Peter who has actually had six grannies and numerous aunts who brought him up in the background and you know that Peter will bring a discrimination case if you offer him less than Joan.

I have said occasionally to have a few days off for dogs and cats

It's all about being human and considering things on a case by case basis. We are big enough to have all the public sector type benefits but small enough to have a bit of humanity.

I was given sick leave for a miscarriage, then WFH for a few weeks, my dad recently died, I had to take the week he was in hospital on his death bed as annual leave and the day after he passed, I got a day for the funeral!