Thread 2. To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[AWanderingFool]

Thread Two for The Salt Path and Raynor Winn/Sally Walker/Sally Winn discussions.

Thread One is here: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

This would make sense. And if his business was failing, the house could be an asset.

If so, I don't think they told him the house had a £230,000 mortgage. That would make a £100,000 loan more of a risk.

Since he was a distant relative they were touching for a massive loan because she'd embezzled her employer, I don't think he needs to be caring.

Actually, maybe it’s the act of a realistic relative: “you will inevitably need to sell your house to pay the loan. I can’t force you to do that, but I will enter into this agreement that will have the same outcome, and keep you out of prison, but I’m not doing it for nothing”

He will have lost money selling to the factorers. I think the relative was extremely naive and probably thought the house was unmortgaged

using an asset that already has a charge on it to borrow even more that exceeds the value of the asset is surely fraud

The loan was to pay back the people she'd embezzled £60k+ from so that she wouldn't be prosecuted for fraud and probably go to prison. I imagine the relative knew he was taking a huge risk, helping them out, hence the interest rate. And possibly he was very canny and saw that if his business went under there might be some upside to the situation.

They didn't say he was a caring relative they said he was a distant relative. Anyone lending fraudsters money is going to set very onerous terms.

The Walkers can' t go round blaming other people for the mess they got into by stealing from another family

The relative may have assumed they would find a way of earning some money. After all, she was a book keeper. As long as new employers didn't find out about her past, she could earn a decent salary. And, of course, there was the house as security.

The description in the Observer says he was a distant relative. My approach when lending money to my second cousin twice removed who I haven't seen for a decade would be very different to lending money to a sibling. He was lending money to keep them out of prison, but he was also protecting himself as best he could.

I reckon so - a huge mea culpa - a coming clean once and for all setting the record straight , she and Moth were in a difficult place and the deeper they went the more diffcult it was to back out. An hour long exclusive on Piers Morgan ,.a big wedge to charity and huge helpings of there is an essential truth amongst the thorns sort of stuff. Folks have done worse and been rehabiliated.She is probably war gaming with a crisis managment team as we speak.

PSPA say ‘In the meantime, we want to reassure supporters that any fundraising Raynor and Moth conducted for PSPA was via official platforms such as JustGiving and monies raised have been received in full by the charity.’

but they don’t know if the Winns held out a bucket and collected cash at any walks they did, had people locally press cash into their hands for the charity or took gifts intended for charity raffles etc that never made it into the hands of the charity. All they definitely know is that it wasn’t possible for them to siphon off the Just Giving donations. There could have been some monies given to the Winns in good faith that never reached the charity. Who knows?

He was lending money to keep them out of prison, but he was also protecting himself as best he could.

And probably unaware of the mortgage, because the house would have helped when his own business went bust.

Gigspanner have thankfully dropped RW from their Saltlines tour. I’d be more likely to go and see the band now she’s not part of it. Her awful reading voice which even a good sound engineer couldn’t improve absolutely killed the performance.

Many people don't read and even people who do didn't necessarily read the book. Me and my DH are both readers and neither of us had read it. I'd never seen them pictured or in media coverage, till the film came out. That is really what's made the difference to how information about them has circulated. It's suddenly in the mainstream. I can well believe that the people they owed money to might have been totally unaware of The Salt Path and its writer until the film release.

I think relative James realised they were a pair of grifters and went to court to make sure they didn't weasel out of paying their debt.

I understand why they needed the loan, but if they had no prospect of repaying it, then it was effectively a gift.

(except it was secured against the house, so perhaps the relative always expected to have to enforce repayment, and it was just a way to delay the inevitable)

I think relative James realised they were a pair of grifters and went to court to make sure they didn't weasel out of paying their debt.

The relative didn't go to court. He gave two of his creditors (people he owed money to) the paperwork regarding the loan to the Winns and the right to get their (the creditors') money back by pursuing the Winns in court. They won the case against the Winns, became the legal owners of the property and evicted the Winns.

Moth is a nickname, a diminutive of TiMOTHy. My son has a nickname that has nothing to do with his actual name, it just evolved when he was a teenager and his friends came up with it.

Agree with this - especially because many of the people they owed money to spoke Welsh as a first language, so probably won’t have read interviews with them in the English media or even heard of the book (although it’s likely it was translated into Welsh).

Yes, I find all the ‘gotcha’ stuff about Moth’ coming from Timothy quite weird. I know a teenage Moth who is really Timothy, and I can think of at least one in a novel, so it’s hardly unheard of as a nickname/shortening. It really doesn’t merit people behaving as though they just worked out who the killer is in a famous unsolved case!

Agreed. I read voraciously. But I would rather have hot needles inserted into my eyes than read "new-agey hocus pocus inspirational stories" - I had literally never heard of the book even until the film publicity (which just made me want to avoid the book!). Equally, the woman whose husband owned the business she stole from clearly did know who they were, but seems to have either thought they wouldn't be believed or didn't want it raking up again. From what she said it broke her husband, and changed his whole approach to life and that must have been very hurtful for her. I can understand someone not speaking out until the point when they are given no option, because by the time the journalist knocks on your door, they already know enough to be unable to hide from it.

True but Sally Walker has said that the name Moth came from his eco activism in the 80s and 90s, and that his real name is Ray.

No mention of Timothy (which it more than likely did come from) because they wouldn't have wanted any link to that name.

Can't find the interview where I read this, but it mentions it here:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/the-salt-path-book-journey-walking-coast-path-cornwall-devon-homelessness-a8502256.html

Oh I agree. His nickname is the least interesting part of this.

I think the nickname just shows another untruth

and I think the relative is getting a bit of a hard time. How many threads on here have people irate that someone has leant a relative a large amount of money without a legal agreement

That's a good point, there was a deliberate effort to hide their real identities

The loan was £65K but the interest rate is quoted as 18% so that , compounded, over the years the loan rose to closer to £100k.

Their distant relative who loaned them the money suffered a business failure so in order to repay them he told his creditors, who pursued Raynor and Moth for the money.

The bottom line is she stole from her employer when she was a book keeper.
That seems irrefutable.

I don't know what will happen to them now.
At best, the publishers will not publish any more books or re-print the 3 already published. But given her income from them so far they should have reasonable savings and be able to survive on it.

Whether there is a legal case for being dishonest in the book, is another matter.

Agree. If someone posted on here saying they wanted to lend their relative who had just nicked £64000 money to pay back what they had stolen they would be told not to be ridiculous

And if someone went to a lawyer and said they wanted to do it they would be told
a ) this is very risky
b) if you must lend it then as a minimum secure it against their property and
c) make sure the interest rate is high enough to reflect the level of risk

I would hope that some of their creditors have got wind of this and will now pursue them for what they owe, and if they can't do because it's been so long (I don't know if that's a thing) then at least go public to state they were one of the creditors, and how much the Walkers owed them.

The French authorities now know who and where they are because of the journalist's visit a couple of weeks ago.