Thread 2. To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[AWanderingFool]

Thread Two for The Salt Path and Raynor Winn/Sally Walker/Sally Winn discussions.

Thread One is here: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5368194-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Why was it clever?

I have chased a (small) business debt from somebody whose story unravelled and who was exposed as a con artist in the courts and press, and many people were hurt by the implosion of the scam.

It was just squalid and sad.

‘trades people’ don’t all have insurance and they can’t all make plans to avoid the consequences of bad debt.

They have pulled on various levers of the public consciousness, just like Hannah Ingram and many others have too - including poor health, romance, bravery, intrepidness, stiff upper lip British spirit of "so we will walk", the healing power of nature etc.

Trust and empathy are key to any human society, so people who exploit this are just bottom feeders.

In this case, the key driver seems to have been a desire to evade responsibility. That is the opposite of gumption.

That lockdown 'essay'! Littered with poor English - 'how can you bare it?' (don’t Penguin proofread anything?), but also -

My daughter’s life changed, from one where she ran free in the natural world to one where she lived in a grey landscape, away from the light. We moved to a small house in a spot tucked away from the wind and the weather, where the only natural view we had was of a tiny strip of blue sky above our heads. Until someone made the most unexpected offer and we found ourselves moving to a neglected, overused farm, where the fields were stripped bare by over-grazing and the land was polluted with every kind of agricultural waste. But the owner had a dream that we could find a way to bring back the wildlife to a place where only a few sparrows squabbled in the hedgerows and two crows watched from a tree. A no-man’s land for wild things

is that 'small house…where the only natural view…was of a tiny strip of blue sky' the Cornish flat she talks about in the Country Living interview, offered to them by a generous stranger, where Moth was happy and started a degree in horticulture, and which they were reluctant to leave when ANOTHER kind benefactor offered them ANOTHER place to live (their current home, presumably)?

I think the stories are all getting a bit muddled.

Observer podcast
https://observer.co.uk/listen/daily-sensemaker/the-real-salt-path

It's only 10 minutes so I doubt it reveals anything new but ... listening now

I don’t admire them but I do admire their chutzpah.

To my mind the best definition of chutzpah can be found in Leo Rosten’s 1968 book The Joys of Yiddish, which defines chutzpah as “that quality enshrined in a man who, having killed his mother and father, throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan.”

It's interesting reading the reviews of the books on Amazon. The vast majority of people fell for the hype, but there is a sprinkling of 1-star reviews from people who smelt a rat.

Journalist says she got a tip off a few months ago that they should investigate.

So presumably someone recognised them from all the publicity who hadn’t connected the book before.

According to the Guardian, the NDA was signed by her husband. However, even if it was binding on her, she will only be in trouble if the Walkers decide to sue her for breaching it. I doubt they will do so as that will tell the whole world who they really are.

There are pen names and pen names. I think everyone knows that JK Rowling's first name is Joanne and I very much doubt Charlotte Bronte was called "Currer Bell" by her circle.

This looks much more like sloughing off one identity to take on another. If the background wasn't embezzlement and deception, it wouldn't matter of course.

but no one who was around in that world then has any memory of him at all, and no trace appears to exist in any magazines

That's a stretch - of those few who skated around there, around that time, who are now posting on a niche Internet forum, no one remembered him. As to magazine articles - I read his quote as saying they were promised those opportunities when he linked up with a promoter/shop owner, which didn't materialise because the business closed.

And I really dislike the public sharing of birth and marriage records on here, they may be in the public domain but as an activity its doxxing and unnecessary.

My comment about £800 being stolen from (or more accurately, not paid to) a tradesperson 15 years ago not being particularly interesting to me in the whole intricate web is because all the tradespeople I know have had this happen to them, on multiple occasions... of course it is wrong but it does happen, they insure themselves against it and take steps to reduce it and build the risk of it into their costs.

The £800 is important in the context here.
It shows the breadth of their disregard for people.

Whether anyone insures themselves or not isn't the point.
It's the behaviour of the perpetrators that is the important issue.

IMO it's as bad to rip off a local garage by £800 as it is to scam the public on a wider level.

How people behave towards the 'little people' is a measure of their characters.

And they continued to steal when on their walk- not paying for food etc etc. Almost gleefully at getting away with it.

"she lived in a grey landscape, away from the light."

This is a prime example of the way this kind of writing grinds my gears. What do you mean, away from the light? She's living in a city, in a first floor (or possibly higher) flat - the sky and natural daylight still exist in cities (not to mention lots of green spaces and trees and gardens and wildlife) - I realise it's meant to be some kind of profound metaphor but it's also just nonsense. Moivng to a city, or indeed a small house (or flat) in Cornwall, does not equal being cut off from nature, or in fact "light" real or analogous.

I know the whole investigation and threads are not about her writing style! - but this is why I find this kind of stuff so hard to read. I'm constantly tripped up and distracted by thinking "eh? what are you actually trying to say because this is just wibble."

Also fell through the roof of a chicken shop during lockdown and trapped for days and passers-by doing nothing - don't believe that either.

The worst thing about the garage is that it was in their village where people do trust each other and they took advantage of that

they are people who take advantage of others and believe it’s their right

It's irrelevant.

The only thing that matters is whether everything in the book is a true account of their journey.

3 nights in a chicken shop turned her off from her veganism 🤣

what a BS story

and if you are a vegan the last place you want to live is above a a chicken shop - the smell would be horrendous!!

but let’s assume it was true - I bet they tried to sue the chicken shop rather than recognise that she was the author of her own misfortune

https://www.pspassociation.org.uk/news/pspas-response-to-the-observer-article/

The PSPA have terminated their relationship. I expect we'll see more of the same in the coming days.

That’s pretty damning!

I am impressed how they navigated that statement. It must be horrible for the organisation and everyone with the condition.

You are correct, it is up to the CPS, but they have to consider whether they have a reasonable likelihood of a conviction in order to take it forward. If the victim withdraws their support for a prosecution (which is likely what the NDA stipulated), then it's very difficult for the CPS to put together a case that meets the threshold for prosecution. Also, if the victim has been repaid and they don't support the prosecution and there is no other alleged wrongdoing, arguably its not in the public interest to pursue a prosecution, which is also something the CPS have to consider.

I’m surprised they immediately cut ties as I would have expected them to say they support all sufferers and will be clarifying with moth etc. so this suggests they know more

also the fact they had to reassure people the money raised actually went to them shows how damaged her reputation is

Doxxing is the act of revealing identifying information about someone online.

We know from information out there (on their own Wikipedia page I think) that they were born in 1960 and 1962. We know from The Observer article their real names and their assumed names. We know from what Sally Walker has written that they married on Skye. We know from what she says about herself in interviews that she was from Melton Mowbray and grew up in Staffordshire.

Fair enough, don't approve of people posting public records, but calling it doxxing is something of a stretch.

I know sharing birth/marriage records on a public forum can seem like snooping, but it actually isn’t. It’s publicly available information that is easily accessible and it doesn’t compromise the privacy of the person involved.

I also don’t agree it’s doxxing, as doxxing is about sharing sensitive or secret info (things like someone’s address, or financial details) rather than public information that is easily accessible.

Also, given the Observer’s article, I was - and am - curious about the names RW and her husband have used in the past, and I think it’s fair and valid to be curious about that. And on balance, I think the people doing the amateur sleuthing on this thread have been fairly sensitive and respectful about it all. I don’t think they’ve crossed a line, as they haven’t unearthed anything the Observer hasn’t and shared it in the thread.

Been following this thread with interest. My DM is a committed fan, and I've sent her the Observer articles to read. Raynor/Sally and Moth/Tim have popped up at least twice on episodes of Rick Stein's Cornwall programme. She was singing in a local folk band and they were making cider in an old-fashioned press on the farmstead they now own.

If these things about them are true, it's utterly galling. Apart from the deceit, false hopes given to the genuinely-suffering, etc., I think I'm right in saying that they were given a property in Cornwall to live in rent-free on a temporary basis (by a chapel/vicar) - got it (This Guardian article from 2018 ‘Nature was my safe place’: Raynor Winn on homelessness and setting off on a 630-mile walk | Books | The Guardian). That angers me too - someone local and in genuine need could've had that flat; the housing situation in Devon and Cornwall (and other tourist hotspots) is appalling for young people on lower incomes who want to remain local to the areas they grew up in. Wretched grifters.

The Guardian describing her book as 'her Costa-nominated memoir, The Salt Path' made me laugh for some reason.

I think you are right that they know more.

From the books, they were offered the flat in the converted chapel, for which they paid rent from Moth's student loan, by the landlady who they happened to meet at the end of the walk, just as the previous tenant was moving out.