to think that understanding feminism isn’t that hard

[suresuresuresure]

Why do people seem to think that feminism is about women wanting to be the same as men rather than wanting equity. It’s not that hard to understand is it?

In regard to women not wanting trans women in women's sport, I keep reading that women shouldn’t be trying to keep trans women out because feminists asked for equality.

AIBU to think this logic is odd. I mean we don’t think men should start having babies or periods in the name of feminism, so why would we think that women and men are the same in sports and physicality?

YABU - Feminist want to be men
YANBU- Feminists want equity

*equality

oh goody, another trans bashing thread. At least 5 minutes since the last one started.

Digging out my Bingo Card

No, equity works perfectly well here. Equality means treating everyone the same. Equality means recognising that people have different needs and treating them fairly on that basis.

Equity is treating people fairly based on their individual needs, not necessarily treating everyone the same. Feminists want to be treat the same.

I really don't think people understand feminism and if there are lots of people who call themselves feminists who believe trans women are women then it can become a feminist aim.

Its changing the definition of 'feminism' in the same way they try to change the definition of 'woman' with the same illogical arguments.

If you want your word back you have to fight for it I'm afraid.

It's very easy to not click on a thread you won't like, just keep scrolling on by.

They don’t though.
Feminists would like car seat belts that fit them and medications that are made for them not the average male.
Feminists would like women’s health to be taken more seriously and research to be carried out on women.
Feminists do not want to be treated as men, they don’t want to be called up for a prostate check. They want equity.

how the heck is this trans bashing! That’s ridiculous

I see feminism as fighting to ensure women are not disadvantaged as a result of their sex. Initially it was very clear- women having the same rights as men, women being able to vote, able to own property etc.

When the grosser imbalances were addressed, we were left with indirect disadvantages that affected women. Things like being overlooked for promotion because of home responsibilities- which disproportionately affects women.

I disagree. I know what I want.

Where on earth are you going to keep reading that???

Let's take an example of say Stab vests for police. Would you be satisfied if men and women were all issued the same vest which would be equality or do you think it may be more useful if the women received stab vests that were designed for womens bodies so that they fitted properly and gave the same level of safety as the mens properly fitted vests which would be equity

On this thread right now as well.

No, feminists want women to have equal rights and opportunities to men.

That means sometimes we need special treatment, such as maternity rights, single sex spaces and our own sporting categories.

The equality is that women and men have an equal level of advantages and protections. In order for them to be equal they very often can’t be the same.

Sports is a good example of this.

In fact not only should sports be separated but women face more injuries than men due to their biology. Acl tears etc.

What do you want? And are you a feminist? Your comments aren't easy to interpret.

My personal pet hate is when people who know nothing about feminism come out with "surely feminism is about choice?" before going on to explain that they have taken their husband's name, had ten kids and become a tradwife because its their "feminist choice". Sorry, it's not that easy to whitewash it.

Choice is a component of feminism and a necessary part of it. And all women should have choice to live as they please as part of feminism, that's a given. But living as a feminist requires some degree of consciousness as to whether your life and actions contradict the wider goal of improving equality for women.

By all means drop out of the workforce and spend your entire life looking after domestic tasks if its what makes you happy. But don't tell yourself its a "feminist choice".

How would you manage the rights and obligations of producing "replacement humans" within the population?

From when the two sex mature into their reproductive cycle to death
And what happens when the two sex manage to engage in creating another human?

Presumably so does the OP, so I'm not sure why you corrected her vocabulary.

Of course a primary biological role of women must be respected. Everything else stems from that. Women permanently exhausted by having to do too much for everyone else isn't good. Women should be supported by adequate maternity rights, childcare rights and not face massive discrimination as middle aged women in the workplace. I hope i have misunderstood what you are trying to say because if not your view seems to be that feminism is only for young childless women.

@Valeriekat

Of course a primary biological role of women must be respected. Everything else stems from that. Women permanently exhausted by having to do too much for everyone else isn't good. Women should be supported by adequate maternity rights, childcare rights and not face massive discrimination as middle aged women in the workplace. I hope i have misunderstood what you are trying to say because if not your view seems to be that feminism is only for young childless women.

I'm not sure how you've taken from this that I've said feminism is only for young, childless women from? I didn't write that and I definitely don't think it.

I'm simply saying that calling any choice made by a woman a "feminist choice", regardless of what it is and what impact it has on other women, is a specious interpretation of what feminism means.

You did seem to have a real contempt for Morherhood there though.

Motherhood should be a key concern of feminism.

@Maryslion

You did seem to have a real contempt for Morherhood there though.
Motherhood should be a key concern of feminism.

Where are you getting that from?

Feminists campaigned for equitable solutions to achieve equality of opportunity.

The term 'equality' gets misused very often when describing group's aims. Some groups being said to be asking for 'equality' are not asking for 'equal treatment', they are asking for 'equal outcome'. There is a significant difference.

Feminists never claimed that female people were exactly like male people. It is fallacious to say this. Feminists said that female people deserved the same opportunities as male people. Feminists always recognised that accommodations needed to be made for the unique needs of the female body. In employment situations, this mean for example, provision of female toilets and changing rooms, maternity provisions, and it often meant a change in policies around stated limits for physical aspects of jobs to reflect the needs of female bodies. And all those done without negatively impacting on the opportunities of those who needed them.

By physical aspect of jobs, I refer to things like policy (and sometimes law) lifting limits at a lower weight to accommodate female body limitations. Any workplace expecting a female to lift loads under weight restrictions (at the time) that were designed for male people would have put that female employee at risk of greater risk of injury than their male colleagues.

Is there something to say that a woman making the choice to be the person who takes on the load of caring for their children isn't a 'feminist' choice. I don't believe that feminists believed that women should automatically choose to outsource childcare, did they? They believed that women should have this choice and it should be based on what is best for them and their children.