To be a little shocked surgeon is happy to see 15 year old alone?

[Anonymousy121]

That’s it really, dd has had a complicated injury and lengthy recovery after an accident. We have been advised she needs surgery, we had a terrible appointment last time where I left the room convinced he wasn’t recommending surgery, dd left convinced he was and him and a colleague were clearly disagreeing about what was needed while we were sat in the room in front of them, without either of them taking the time to speak to us just continually going in and out of each others rooms and raised voices! It was very difficult. She is due to be reviewed next week. To discuss surgery and decide whether to proceed. I have a family emergency out of town I am dealing with, DHL has a work thing he really can’t get out of. I contacted surgeon saying sorry can we come the week after and his secretary has replied saying he is happy to see dd by herself! Dd is certainly Gillick competent in general (except surgery might have long term complications which I don’t think she really understands the implications like any 15 year old) but I am a bit shocked he doesn’t feel we need to hear what he has to say! Dd has watched enough ops on tick tok and you tube she could probably assist, she’s also put ChatGPT through it’s paces for the last 6 weeks and has a list of over 20 questions and is pretty feisty. Dh thinks he’s keen to see her without me because I’m difficult but we both know he’ll revise that opinion after she’s been leading the show!

So how common is it for surgeons to see 15 year old children alone? Anyone else surprised?
(adding dh is going to cancel his work thing, I will try and zoom in and I’ve just remembered I used to go to the hospital myself when I was at school for a long term thing years ago! Shocked at that too now!)

Surely it’s not true that doctors can decide a child has treatment unless the parents agree.

Because he will be doing it anyway! It’s not really relevant to the question but she is part of some research so it’s very relevant to that.

Nope, this makes no sense. First the surgeon and his mate were arguing in front of you and DD then he suggests you DD goes to her next appointment alone and now you’re saying he’s using it as a photo op? What is the surgery she’s having?

So why did you not book one of those many available appointments then?

But yes that’s also a good point which others have commentated on I will give that a bit more thought.

we have seen this guy for years about essentially the same thing, it’s become quite all consuming so I think we do all have a slightly minimising attitude towards some of it!

So your DH could gave been there and is going to be? If he wasn't I was going to suggest you joining in the meeting, remotely. Although I do think that your DD having major surgery trumps any other family emergency.

Absolutely not. It all sounds far too loosey goosey to me given your description of the previous appointment. I would reschedule the appointment or you or your DH reschedule yours, surgery is serious business.

Based on your experience at the first appointment I would have insisted on being referred to a different surgeon. That sounds like pretty appalling behaviour and as someone who has spent many years working closely with surgeons, I would be concerned by someone who behaves like that in front of patients. It suggests an arrogance and lack of regard that would ring alarm bells.

My worries would be even greater after finding out that he thinks it's appropriate to see and consent a 15 year old without another responsible adult present.

I wouldn't be allowing a 15 year old teen of mine to attend the appt alone, especially after what happened at the last one! I'd rearrange my commitments so I could be there or make sure dad attended.

I think it’s very strange that the surgeon thinks that seeing your Dd without a parent is a good idea. It would make me to question his judgment in general whatever his reasons were.
Just wanted to add that apart from list of questions it’s worth for your DD to work out their order (the strategy) otherwise you might end up in the situation when you spend list of the time arguing about less important but controversial questions e.g availability of video and then won’t have time for the most important things. If I were your DH I would go through the list with her in advance.

I agree that Gillick is used for purposes that it was not originally intended. It was to allow children to access contraception without parental consent, when they were sexualy active, when the alternative was likely to lead to a teenage pregnancy. This is not the same giving responsibility to a teenager to decide on surgery which is likely to have some significant consequences. If the surgeons did not agree on the proposed course of action, it is clearly not straightforward. If she is involved in a study, there are clearly some variables if not uncertainties involved. Even if she could attend in her own, that doesn't mean she should.

It’s rare, but I would be led by your daughter. And perhaps ask for a chaperone at the appointment.

my daughter has major surgery when she was ten. She reacted badly to the morphine drip and felt nauseous. Her surgeon said she was old enough to choose - morphine, with no pain, but discomfort and nausea, or switch to simple paracetamol and the drip removed, which might leave her in some pain. When I tried to offer an opinion the surgeon kindly put me in my place and said my daughter was old enough to have autonomy in pain relief post surgery.

my pointbeing, docs see our kids as much more competent than we do!

Interesting - my daughter is 15 and having physio. We were told there always needs to be a parent at the sessions - I’m guessing just to safeguard the male physio against any allegations as much as anything. When I worked in a GP surgery, we would offer a chaperone to U18s if they wanted one.

It is actually true. As long as the child understands the risks of having the Op vs not having the Op, they can give their own consent.
Probably done in more of an emergency situation where time is of the essence and parents or those with parental responsibility aren't there. We've seen from another thread parents can easily be a couple of hours away from their kids. Kids in school locally, parents at work in the city.

But in this circumstance the Surgeon is right Op and her DH have managed to reorganise themselves so one of them will be there.
And if push had come to shove I'd guess another trusted adult could have gone with her, Grandparent, Auntie, Uncle, parents friend, or even one of her friends.

Personally, from 13/14 I went to all appointments by myself, took control of my health record (by signing some forms - you can do it at 13 at the earliest but 16 is when the system does it automatically). Though your children can ask for you to still be involved at 16 if they sign forms. I always went to the hospital, surgery consultations, GP etc by myself and as they knew I was competent it was fine. Obviously adults do bring people for support but it's not always necessary and I never really do. I've always managed my conditions by myself and my doctors were always happy to prescribe things and have the whole consultation with me.

Also, as she's almost 16 your automatically going to lose access very soon, so once they know she's close to 16, in my experience they don't mind (which was with lots of different doctors, they never questioned it) but I was very organised and knew everything that was going on and did lots of research on extra trestments etc.

I think once she's getting to this age it's good to let her do a few on her own, people need to learn how to advocate for themselves about pain, etc and also know what's going on; the NHS app allows them to get their health record from 13-16. Sometimes, my peers at 17, couldn't even book a GP appointment because their parents always did it.

I’m clearly not going to say what surgery she is having it’s 100% non of your business.
I asked his secretary to ask him if we could postpone to the date I was back because it was very difficult for us to get there (and explained why.)

That doesn’t explain why you didn’t book of the many alternative appointments they told you were available.

It honestly is tricky, I am overseas because my mother has had a stroke.
My dh has his own clinic where most of the patients are in the midst of chemo, clearly he will shuffle and go but that obviously comes with a whole load of effects on multiple other people which we really would rather try and avoid if possible. I will zoom in for it but I originally asked for a swap because I find it easier to ‘read’ people when I am in the same room!
Of course the clinics aren’t even in the same hospital!

Gosh I am trying to keep the comments/answers relevant. I asked if clinically we could postpone.

To whoever else asked I don’t think he’s going to consent her, he would have to consent me so I assume he thought they could just chat and then book a date and he could consent me then. Which means he would expect to repeat a lot of info (but now dh is going) so maybe he just wanted to get on with it. I was just surprised he was happy to see her alone and wondered how common it was.

The surgeon really is a nice guy he also happens to be the one the other surgeons refer their tricky patients to for this op so we’re keen to stick with him, clinical disagreements occur, that’s fine.

I assume he will see her with the registrar (always has up until now).

Yeah we’re going to try this too. Thank you

Honest answer - you spoke to a member of the admin team who doesn't care who comes to the appointment so long as the patient turns

If both you and your daughter have a lot of questions and don't agree amongst yourselves it makes for a difficult and circular consultation. Having a stroppy parent on speakerphone whilst a teen rabbits on about getting a photo of their appendix during complex surgery sounds like a bloody nightmare. I'd be shocked if the surgeon agreed to photos and video for a patient's personal use - very much doubt the hospital legal team would allow it.

I'd be shocked if the surgeon agreed to photos and video for a patient's personal use - very much doubt the hospital legal team would allow it.

I can confirm that this does happen - I've seen it on multiple occasions. I doubt anyone asked the legal team!

She can't consent to participate in medical research until she's 16, younger than that needs to be pr