To think sometimes the loudest people win - not the smartest or kindest, just the most forceful?

[MyAmusedOpalCrab]

I’ve seen it in meetings, friendships, family dynamics, even online - the person who talks the most, insists the hardest, or just dominates the space often gets their way.

AIBU to find it frustrating that being “loud” can be mistaken for being right or being in charge?

Sometimes? I'd venture to say most of the time.

Absolutely correct.

Just look who's in charge of the USA.

You only have to look at politicians to see how true this is. The pushy, loud ones are on the front benches, all the others are backbenchers.

Generally, it starts in school and then permeates through every aspect of life growing up.

That’s fair, you’re probably right to say most of the time. It’s mad how often volume gets mistaken for value. Makes me wonder how much quieter, more thoughtful people get overlooked entirely.

Generally I’d agree. Although I once had an interview, along with several others, one of whom dominated the general discussion times and declared during the proceedings, that the job was hers.

It wasn’t.

Absolutely, 100%. The loudest, most confident (even if erroneously) or even the person that just makes the most annoyance of themselves.

I see it a heck of a lot in work. In my own team for example, there's one guy who is considered the best in our team. Across the board, it's just accepted that he is the best at what we do. He is very loud and confident about his knowledge... Very frequently getting things wrong in public, which we have to sort out behind his back (we've learned not to talk to him about it, as he will go off sick if his confidence is knocked). He's not even hitting his KPIs, but it's just accepted he's the best worker. Because he is so confident in everything he says, insistant that he is most knowledgeable, even if it's wrong...

I know who the most knowledgeable of us is, and who is also hitting their KPIs with it, and she is quiet.. She lacks confidence as well. Often questioning herself and her conclusions, when she is right on the money with practically everything. (it's not me lol)

And looking at the level or two above us, it's even worse. Literally any of us, even confident-but-wrong guy, could do a better job. But they are louder, even more confident, and even more insistant. So they are paid twice/three times as much as we are to just constantly get things wrong, for us to quietly fix and deal with so they don't get upset.

And it is the same in most spaces.

But it’s their responsibility to get heard. I get tired of the Mn cliché of the overlooked ‘thoughtful’ individual, whether it’s in friendships, the workplace or the public sphere, usually pitted against some largely imaginary ‘loud’ or ‘extroverted’ person characterised as less talented/nice, but gobby.

No one is psychic. If you have something to say, don’t sit about waiting for your contribution to be invited — say it. Not making your voice heard makes you ineffectual, rather than an undiscovered treasure.

Yes….it was usually the loudest amd most visible in my office that did the least but got the most credit. Those quietly beavering away in the background got little credit.

A lot of people are weak and go along with the crowd. If you kowtow to the loudest individual, knowing they're wrong, you're just as culpable.

Of course. Why do so many people in high powered jobs fuck up royally, get fired or forced out, and then go straight into another top level job somewhere else?

Although I don't know if it's necessarily loudness as much as coming over as very confident and ready to take charge. Even if they're hugely incompetent, if they're willing to take the lead and nobody else is, then that's what happens.

I had a very similar experience years ago when applying for my first graduate job.

At the second interview stage we had to do various tests and group exercises as well as interviews. In one exercise we were in a small group coming up with a solution to a problem while being observed by a staff member. One guy tried to dominate the whole thing, talking over and interrupting other people all the time. Not properly listening to other people's input.

Right at the last minute we remembered we were supposed to come up with a spokesperson to present our solution. I said "Well I think you better do it because you seem to talk twice as much as everyone else." The idiot looked pleased to be chosen! Pleased to say I got a place on the graduate program and he definitely didn't.

Angry people usually win.
The most emotional people win.
Look at the Home secretary's discretion about keeping people in prison forever... this power exists because of "public anger" over the original crimes, nothing to do with current risk posed by the offender much less if the offender has changed even less to do with deterrence to prevent similar crimes happening again.

Infinite other example of loudest negative emotions winning over rationality.

I don't think it's noise alone actually. Certainly you need to be able to speak up and get noticed but e.g. Trump hasn't succeeded just because he's loud. He's also wealthy, cut throat and has unwavering confidence.

Agreed - it seems to be from day 1 that the loudest child / adult in the room is the one who is fussed over and chosen for special rewards and privileges.
Interviewers - particularly those from HR like the gobby person who is quite likely to be talking rubbish. I have been on a few panels where I have strongly disagreed with HR and managers about a candidates potential ability to do the job.
It is a sort of discrimination against introverts so we end up with useless people doing the job - fortunately they have strong beliefs in their own abilities so soon move on to something more senior (think Liz Truss)

I clicked on YANB before I even read your post OP. Explains a lot of the problems in the world. The gentle and thoughtful people aren’t the ones in charge.

Sadly I agree, this starts in childhood and continues from there.
Bullyish, loud girls and boys dominate and are always on the popular group at school and so on.