HR: there to prevent employment tribunals, not support workers

[DonaldTrumpsTwitterFeed]

As it says!

AIBU to think that most HR functions provide more support to those causing problems than those on the recording end? I’m talking everything from poor-performance to bullying. Mostly it seems to be aimed at avoiding employment tribunals and unfair dismissal claims!

In today's increasingly litigious world, some employees will bring a claim against the organisation regardless of whether the organisation has behaved appropriately. The organisation needs to ensure that if that does happen, they can evidence no wrongdoing on their part to successfully defend the claim.

I wouldn't say it's a fear of a claim. It's taking sensible steps to ensure a claim can be defended if needed.

@DonaldTrumpsTwitterFeed then in that case the problem lies with the capability of your HR staff, not HR per se. Get yourself in a union (of which I am a big fan) and call them out.

The function of HR is to protect the company, not the employees. I am surprised if this is news to anyone who has ever had a job.

As PPs say, HR works for the company.

Remember that both HR staff and managers are just people with their own biases and limitations. HR and management must follow legal processes and company policies. This means investigations, evidence-based decisions (not hearsay), and a focus on performance management and training before dismissal.

Document issues with evidence and in writing to your manager, focusing on your personal impact. For example - Don't just say "Fred's slacking"; specify "Fred's missed X, causing me to do Y, resulting in Z." Don't take on others' battles either; Paul can file his own grievance.

If management fails to act (especially if favoritism is involved), present your evidence to HR, again highlighting your personal impact. If HR also fails, escalate to a union or external body.

You are correct,of course,who would think otherwise

The department and people that are the first not to trust in an organisation is HR, or whatever warm and fuzzy title they give them these days, usually something like “The People Team”.

@Shoecamp @devildeepbluesea Agree with what you've said. I also see HR as being a behind the scenes functions, coaching and directing managers to do things the right way to treat employees fairly. I'm becoming increasingly frustrating with the "why can't I speak to HR", "why didn't HR call me", "I'm going to HR about you". Managers run the business, managers make the decisions!! Am I alone?

I got into HR because I want to make a difference. I hate it when I hear employees being treated badly. It it is my job to help the business do better. However, it can be thankless and at times a struggle to get managers to see sense.

I also see some tribunals that have absolutely no merit and because they are free to raise the employee has nothing to lose. I'm afraid the culture of wanting a pay off is alive and well.

Yes, part of HR’s responsibility is to protect the organisation from risk.

Just the same as Health & Safety, Finance, Internal Audit, Corporate Governance, IT, Legal.

Why does anyone hold a belief that HR should be employees’ friend / support, when that’s not expected of any other corporate team? Is it because HR is a largely female profession?

If you’re looking for support as an employee, do as was suggested up-thread and join a union.

I work in HR. I got into HR because, like most people with jobs, I needed to pay my bills. I like my colleagues and get on well with the vast majority of them, but am sick of being blamed for either things a manager has done of their own volition, company-level policies set without any input from HR, or an employee's total inability to e.g. read their own contract.

Any HR threads on MN inevitably go the same way of 'my DH calls HR human remains!!! hahahaha!!!! they're useless OP they're not your friend lots of snakes out there xoxo'

I take it lile car sales people and agents if you are selling and they get you more than you expect you want them as your bff of you are buying and they dont do what you demand they are greedy shady bustards so it depends

Those who demand 'i have rights and i want them now' and dont get what they want hr is called one thing if they get you what you are entitled too people are happy

Agreed. Managers seem to think we're there do all of their people management for them. Employees think we're there to be a knight in shining armour to tell off their manager whenever they think they're being treated unfairly. You can't win.

Agree with @Elektra1, HR is a Dept, designed to work for, service, serve, provide for, protect, the company.

It's not there for the employees, it's there for the company. Surely everyone knows this?

Oh here we go, let's bash a profession that's predominantly female.

Yes, totally for the employer not the employee. When I took a case against my employer of workplace bullying and disability discrimination they were beyond appalling. I had one HR boss actually phone me up and threaten me, telling me that I would be very foolish to bring a case to tribunal, and that the process would destroy me. They ended up settling the case two days before tribunal. The woman who threatened me was utterly vile, and it was hard not to laugh when she was made redundant some years later.

Agree, many people on mn seem to think HR is a counselling or dispute resolution service.

Some HR people are awful and some are great, like any other profession. Most HR teams or people are working really hard in the background to mitigate appalling management decisions but employees will never get to learn about it - you just see the outcome. E.g this week I have fought for an employee to get discretionary paid leave to support his poorly daughter when the manager took offence at 'how he asked'. Then supported the manager to realise why that was a dick move.

You would be surprised how much a good people professional will advocate for colleagues, often at the expense of their own wellbeing or job security. Yes we manage risk but we want to make things better, often with exec teams that just don't care.

We deal with everything from the mundane to (TW) baby loss and suicide, often when we are dealing with our own personal challenges because we are people too.

We don't always have the authority to make the changes needed but you can bet we will always be the ones held accountable. We don't have a magic wand to give everyone what they want. 🤷‍♀️

Have you thought about speaking to your HR team to get their views and give them some ideas on what they can do differently? I suspect not, easier to post that HR are not my friend whilst taking zero responsibility to help change things.

As it is, the main people my colleagues have been dealing with are male. So, perhaps that says more about your own perceptions than anything else.

Exactly this. 👆 As a former senior HR Professional, my role in advising managers how to operate lawfully had a beneficial impact on employees. Whether employees recognise this is another matter - and this thread suggests to they mostly don't.

Yes thry are.

But I dont think this is any kind of well kept secret...

As someone else said, you get good and bad in every profession.

There is some truth in what was said though. People underestimate the effort and stress involved in raising a claim, usually because they've been mistakenly advised they'll get a big payout.

It can easily take 18 months to two years to get to ET and in between there's lots of back and forth with the respondent/their solicitor and the ET themselves. You'll have to provide solid evidence to support your claim and if it gets as far as a hearing, you could find yourself being questioned by the respondent's barrister.

A settlement also isn't an admission of the organisation's guilt. Usually it's a commercial decision because it's cheaper to settle than to continue with the cost of defending the claim.

I'm all for employees having a mechanism to raise concerns about bad employers but I see a lot of them raising claims with no real idea of what the process will involve.

@CleanQueen123 Yes, of course it’s stressful, but this was a threat, the undertone was we will destroy you. I came close to throwing in the towel, but then came across email evidence that my bullying boss had joked to someone in HR that hopefully my depression was bad enough that I would kill myself as that would sort the problem out. The gloves were off then, as I saw exactly what I was up against.

As said, there are good and bad in all professions and it sounds like you were treated awfully. I certainly wouldn't be joking about something like that with any manager I work with and I'd be raising it immediately if they thought that was an appropriate joke to make.

More broadly though, I do think a lot of claimants raise a claim without being fully aware of what it involves and find themselves unfortunately very stressed and disappointed with the outcome.

Hold up.

I'll celebrate/be grateful for predominantly-female professions that support women. Midwives, nursery workers, childminders, cleaners... these are all women I'm deeply grateful for and have really appreciated. And, with society being what it is, childminders/cleaners etc are often helping free up women to go into the workplace.

Too many HR departments have thrown women under buses. Maybe you're naive and haven't had the experiences I have had, like when I was gently urged to quit a senior role (in my secondary job) during my first pregnancy as I'd be "too busy, surely" to do the job after having my baby. I went to HR and they were less than useless. That was a uniquely female issue and they did not help me.

Women are overall slightly more likely to "need" HR than men for various reasons. HR, on the whole, are no friend to women.

This is with the exception of my current main employer's HR who have been fab but that's been a pleasant surprise.