To disagree with Phillipson's Have More Children advice

[JustASmallBear]

In various newspapers.

Bridget Phillipson is urging young people to have more children in order to try and reverse the inevitable population shrinkage from a falling birth rate.

AIBU to think at best this is short termism at its finest?

Apart from anything else, young people struggle to buy a home, let alone can afford the expense of having more kids.

I think Phillipson is deluded in believing anyone wants more children when it'll make their lives more financially difficult.

What are the incentives that will make this irresistible?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/30/falling-birthrate-bridget-phillipson-education-secretary-labour?CMP=share_btn_url

I remember reading a while ago that when you have a child you need to start saving as soon as you know you are pregnant, not for the things your infant will need as a baby or young child but for it's Education, the for it's first property deposit and finally if you want your child to be able to retire you should also be saving for that, yep you should be saving for your child's retirement fund. All this while also paying extortionate rent, saving for a house deposit, paying childcare, paying off your own student fees or loans, trying to say for your own retirement, helping out elderly parents, and the general cost of living.

It's impossible so why bother.

@Rewis Who is paying for all of that? The most highly taxed people in Europe, excluding Scandinavia? We are full of wants but we never want to pay for anything! We seem to think everyone else will. Nursery staff are not highly paid but the staff ratios are expensive. As are NI costs that have just got bigger! Plus those earning more subsidise the 30 hours dc! We rob Peter to pay Paul and Paul still complains!

There are obvious issues around affording dc, but handing out even more benefits by taxing parents even more isn’t going to be great for them when they don’t need the nursery any more. We need to think far more carefully about what dc actually need and associated provision and costs.

I'm sure when I was a child it was more normal to tell kids to go off and play while I have an adult chat with friends. I'm quite strict with mine when it comes to expecting them to entertain themselves sometimes but I've several friends that claim that their kids are completely unable to do this.

It might be a culture thing. My "white" friends parents weren't very involved or interested

This is what I worry about. Even if your DC is very smart and gets a highly paid job, they'll never be able to afford a house without the help of parents which is ridiculous. House prices I think are the underlying issue to the low quality of life we all face

@NeedZzzzzssss When I grew up it was just different, my parents were very involved, did things with us be there were a lot of kids where we lived and we all played out most days or we might be in or out each others houses if the weather was bad playing indoors. I was in a working class neighbourhood where everyone was in council housing and the mum's didn't work for the most part until kids were in high school or if they did it was very part time. The mum's kept an eye on things but they did get on with other things. It is actually now known to be very beneficial for kids to have this kind of free play with other kids, getting into scrapes, fights and disagreements, it is where we learn to resolve issues and to be resilient, a bit of benign neglect is healthy, necessary even. Without this kids grow up to he adults who cannot cope with the normal pressures and conflicts of life.

Now many parents won't allow their kids into the homes of their friends or play unsupervised. I walked to and from School with other kids from the age of 5 these days that would be unthinkable drop off and pick up in common right up to secondary school age in some cases. As a teen I would navigate public transport to get to and from activities now many kids are chauffeured about.

We did however sit down together to eat home cooked meals, we enjoyed family days out, playing board games, film nights and my parents even thought they were poor always gave us their time and attention when we needed it. It was a good balance or parenting, connection and learning to be independent.

Don't forget shite maternity care.

My supposed "high risk" pregnancy care still missed preventative treatment for pre-eclampsia, whilst steadfastly ignoring my HG, and trying to withdraw my sickness meds.

@NeedZzzzzssss Absolutely, it is very difficult to consider bringing a child into the world when you know that more than likely they will not have as good a standard of living as you have had. I also think that everyone even if they aren't so academically gifted or don't have a highly paid job should still have the chance to be in decent secure housing either though buying or access to social housing. We seem to be moving to what they are calling an "inheritocracy" where your ability to own a home depends more on your parents wealth than anything you yourself can do.

I only have one for medical reasons. However I don’t think I could have managed a second. Paying for nursery fees once was doable as I had savings and took the financial hit, but again.
It’s not just nursery care though. Primary offered no wraparound and finding care was impossible. Holiday childcare is patchy and not helpful if you actually need to go into work (9.30-2pm etc). Weeks of no holiday clubs happening at all. So you take unpaid leave, another financial hit. You struggle to have a holiday as you and DH have to be off different weeks.
Everyone I know who manages okay is because their parents pick up the slack.

Now I will have to pay for uni costs. DH (or I) would never have been able to go if it hadn’t been free in the 90s.

I do know 2 people who have 5 children. One her parents helped enormously, and older ones had to help with younger ones. She has zero money to help any of them with uni/house costs. I’ll be shocked if any of them have children. The other her husband is a high earner so she didn’t work, her children also won’t have kids.

That’s certainly what people say – but since immigration has been harming the country economically for nearly two decades now, you have to conclude that people are actually in favour of it for some other reason that they’re not saying.

I almost feel like we've made life too complicated and our standards too high - in terms of how we think we should bring up kids. And so a large chunk of people have quite rationally decided it's too much. I assumed I'd had them, but housing and working long hours made it seem out of reach and so delayed it. And then we broke up - so I'm glad we aren't trying to co-parent!

Funnily enough, I am originally from Scandinavia. My go to would be to redistribute benefits differently.

Quite honestly, the main problem for me is the current societies expectation of parenting. Children not allowed to be home alone, children not allowed sleepover, children not allowed to walk to school, dads not allowed buy clothes for their daughter, having to drive kids everywhere, being present to every damn presentation the child makes. School uniforms ans ridiculous school rules, schools expectations of parents. Not enough annual leave to cover school holidays. The contradictions of the hostility towards families and the hostility those not having children. It all looks and sounds exhausting.

@SskkaThsts not true though. Most immigrants have jobs and pay tax. Thats why we have skill shortages now EU people have left. It’s also forced prices up. Look at building trades if you want to see what losing skilled staff looks like.

@Rewis I think we do need to look at benefits. Look at Labour’s attempt at that though! We have no sovereign wealth fund. We are a nation that doesn’t like paying for the dc of others. Look at the mean Farsge stance that will win millions of votes. We like what’s ours and we don’t like sharing it.

I do think we expect to much of parents but most of them want the latest “stuff” for dc. Eg games consoles, trainers, clothes, phones, theme park visits etc. I don’t think school uniform is an issue when compared to the above wants. No one seems capable of saying no, we are managing on less.

Lots of working parents are not present at much at all! They feel guilty though. Ridiculous school rules, pressure to conform and be perfect are strains on dc and parents do find all this a strain too. But….. they hate unruly dc even more!

I’ve never heard of men not buying DD clothes if they want to. Or dc not being allowed to walk to school is new to me too. I do think some parents desperately want to avoid badly behaved dc and have an easier life m. They see that in a prep school, and instead of putting up with some awful state schools, they strike to earn fees. This puts pressure on family time and definitely restricts size of family.

I see KS says her views are not a priority for Labour so they will just tax, tax, tax.

It was when I was a child. We were much more free range. We weren’t supervised every second of every day during the holidays. We pretty much entertained ourselves, you going to look for friends or just playing on our own.

While people are prepared to fund all of the above for their children, nothing will change.

Otherwise, when nobody is buying that overpriced house, it will eventually come down in price.

But then, I personally think we don't need more children. The world is overpopulated as it is.
But economically and politically we obviously need more children as they are consumers and tax payers!

No one should be having kids unless they want one and can afford one.

Yes

So you have also seen the film idiocracy

Even in Norway, where there is generous parental leave, the birthrate is falling as the financial and time investment per child has increased over the last few decades.

Yes child rearing is harder work -all these after school activities but also people wash and change clothes more often and expect savoury, varied tasty meals. More money means more toys and no smacking ! The outdoors is considered unsafe without supervision. Now there’s the battle over screens and gaming - it’s exhausting.