Creeping Americanisation bothers me

[luckymumandnowluckygranny]

I know it’s silly to care, but creeping Americanisation bothers me. I love the differences - it makes going on holiday over there so exciting - like being in a film. But I don’t like it when it erodes our traditions - we don’t want everywhere to be exactly the same, do we?. And it’s even worse when they take our ideas and claim they were theirs all along. Anyway, I quote from this week’s Sunday Times - “the formal dance at the end of the the school year used to be a solely American rite of passage” They go on to say that it is now a “staple” of the British school experience. One mum quoted says it is an inevitability of the Americanisation of our culture.
Well, perhaps that is true in England, I don’t know. But in Scotland the school I attended in the 1970s and the one my children attended in the 1990s - 2000s, and the schools my friends went to, have held “Leaving Balls” since at least the 1950s (perhaps earlier but I have no-one left to ask). It was all arranged by the Ball Committee which was elected at the beginning of the school year.The girls wore ballgowns , not “prom dresses” and boys wore dinner jackets, not “tuxes”, and they got together to get ready and do hair and makeup. The dresses were bought in Debenhams or John Lewis or local independent dress shops, who kept a note of which schools the girls came from to avoid duplicates. You did not need a date, as all the leavers were invited, and no outsiders were allowed. There was no Queen or King. And I know that only last week as term ended our local schools had Leaving Balls, not proms. So what’s American about that?
Same with Halloween - this was huge in Scotland - we dressed up and went out guising - we performed a song or poem or dance in return for sweets - no threat of “tricking” was involved. We had bonfires and fireworks and clootie dumpling, treacle scones and dooking for apples. And I know this goes back at least 100 years (in fact having looked it up it goes back to the 16th century) . So I ask again, what’s American about that?
Yet I hear complaints that folk don’t like Halloween because it is so American.
And don’t get me started on Hogmanay…
So let’s celebrate our own traditions and pick up some fun ones from other cultures, yes, including the USA.
Thanksgiving, anyone?

I can only go with my own experiences in England. End of year balls wasn't a thing and Halloween was watching a scary movie. So these new experience my kids enjoy, prom and trick or treating are definitely from America.

Your title seems to contradict the body of your post, as you’re saying that school leavers’ balls and Halloween being thought of as Americanisation isn’t incorrect.

I’m from England and definitely went trick or treating in the 80s. We also had an end of year disco, so not as elaborate (or expensive) as a prom but still a big party.

I think the Americanisations I dislike are more ones which are infiltrating the British way of doing things, for example, I was watching the Club World Cup and the players all came out named one by one with fireworks and music, it was just so ‘soccer’ and not football. In the big scheme of life it doesn’t matter but it just irritates because it’s not how we do football.

I never understood why people thought Halloween was American. We were guising using “trick or treat” back in the 70s in the North East (Scotland) and also had a leaver’s ball in 1990.

The other one we hear about is “baby showers” but again, there has always been a tradition in Scotland of older mums getting together with mums to be and passing on their wisdom / old baby stuff.

Every damn year there's a post about prom/ Leaving Balls eroding British Life.

Do you genuinely think British culture is so fragile that it will collapse if some kids celebrate finishing school?

This isa bloody awful post. I'm Canadian, and many of the things people get upset about are features of our culture too.
Offensive but I doubt @mnhq will do anything. As usual.

I think she’s saying that leavers’ balls have been Americanised into “proms”.

We had Leavers Balls (definitely not Proms) when I left school in the early noughties. Long standing traditions.

But cultures which are very close do bleed together eventually. We’ve had American media dominant in the UK for so long now. Who cares what the end of year school party or the things kids do on 31 October are called?

It was just known as a Leaver's Party in S6 as you left school in Scotland years ago. Held at a function suite with some private catering and a wee disco/ DJ.

Exactly. Halloween / trick or treat is something that was originally imported through Scottish and Irish immigration to America in the 1800s (obviously it's evolved over the years)

Your post doesn’t make sense

Sorry all, I explained myself badly. I certainly didn't mean to be offensive. I was trying to say that although I didn't like creeping Americanisation, the thing that I really don't like is taking our things and claiming that they invented them. I don't mind sharing them, honestly! I once had an American telling me vehemently that "Auld Land Syne" was an American song. Of course I want kids to have a lovely leaving party, just saying that they always did. I better shut up now. Thanks for all your comments.

You certainly did mean to be offensive. You can’t complain about copycat Americans and their offensive culture without meaning to insult them. I get it. Even when we didn’t have a stupid president we were the “go to” for acceptable xenophobia. The sad thing is that Americans love anything British. They don’t know that they are mocked and disliked until they read forums like this one or learn firsthand.

The problem is the centering of England and English culture.

Scotland (and Ireland) contributed to America an enormous amount of what the English sniff at when it returns to the islands it originally came from.

In Ireland the annual school leavers shindig is called a Debs, short for Debutantes Ball. Again, planned by a committee elected by fellow students, involving evening attire, dates for the evening needed back in my day, perhaps not so much now. White dresses were de rigeur forty years ago but that has changed. Entire town populations come out to see the debs off to their big night and there is an annual special section in the Irish Times on debs fashions and trends. It's a huge rite of passage and has been done for almost a hundred years.

Hallowe'en is also huge in Ireland and has morphed from something quite rustic and steeped in ancient rural tradition (going back millennia) into a more globally recognisable celebration, but the bones of it remain (pardon the expression).

It's far more likely thar they came about thanks to the influence of Irish immigrants in England.

You’ve had a name change fail @luckymumandnowluckygranny @Lesleymac1978

I suppose it's the very Americanised modern versions of these things that people have an issue with. I think it's a bit sad, occasionally funny (in a 'point and laugh' way) to see (for example) that Halloween is huge in SE Asia, and the way the world goes bonkers over St Patrick's Day.

I'm from London and we used to go trick or treating (and called it that) in the 1970s. I think the Americanisation part of it is that now kids seem to dress up in any fancy dress they like rather than witches, ghosts etc.

I actually the complaints of new imported Americanisms funny because it usually such a small England mentality. Often many of these things can’t even American, they just aren’t English.
As an Irish person I often get accused by the English of Americanisms; the way we pronounce certain words particularly yoghurt, end of 6th year formals, Halloween - trick or treating, parties, dressing up etc

I don’t think most Americans think they invented everything, although I did have an American proclaim his disgust that I didn’t grow up singing the national anthem in school or pledge allegiance to the flag … of American??

Are you suggesting Americans are wandering about saying ‘Proms and Hallowe’en? Yup, we invented them!’?

I know what the OP means. We had an end of school dance (school hall, dashing white sergeant and strip the willow) with buffet and fruit punch (ahem) and Halloween parties when we were small children (apple bobbing, doughnuts on strings, turnip lanterns, ghost stories etc),

There were no prom queens, limos, beauty salon visits, 3 course sit down dinners etc. Halloween outfits were of the witches hat, ghosty sheet variety.

I think the change is more the consumerisation aspect, so buying decorations, costumes, premade Halloween food - all these celebrations seem to descend into retail opportunity rather than a true celebration of, what are, in many cases, very old and long standing traditions.

I went to a private school, we had the leavers ball at the end of the year (mid 90's) and this had been a tradition since at least the 1920's as there were photos from that era in the school library.

Boys would wear a tux, girls a ball gown, no limos or articulated trucks though!

The term prom though is just a shortening of promenade, which I'm pretty sure has European (French?) origins and appears in British culture, ie the Proms.

My formal was 25 years ago and included a limited there, formal banquette hall, sit down 3 course dinner and a dance after. It was a bog standard formal compared to all the schools in my city.

How is a name change fail even possible on Mumsnet now? They’ve implemented a thing where you can’t name change once you’ve posted on a thread, to stop sock puppets.

Are you logging in on different accounts you’ve set up?