To refuse something that isn’t in my job description?

[Tequillalemon]

I am currently being asked to do more than my job description - like many people nowadays - worried I will lose my job if I don’t but what I am being asked to do does not follow policy and isn’t safe, and not what I thought the job entailed.

My job description has lots of points in but my main duties are advice and guidance.

Now being asked to clean, do basic diy, tip runs, moving heavy things etc. As this is not in my job description what happens if I was to have an accident or break something?

Not actually sure on my role anymore and I have voiced my concerns. They either change my job description to reflect the new duties or I don’t do it.

Where do I stand?

AIBU?

All depends... if there's a clause saying "and other reasonable duties"

And if the duties are reasonable for your role.

What is your job title?

How long have you been in the job? If under two years you don’t have any rights against unfair dismissal anyway.

if over two years it’s still a tricky one! If you were dismissed for not doing it, it would be up to the tribunal to determine if the requests were reasonable or not. You would have more of a chance with the safety element but it’s still down to interpretation (and it’s also a very long wait for tribunal).

I would put it in writing why you feel it’s unreasonable.

Job title is an advisory role.

Most job descriptions do now have a bit written in about being asked to do their things in relation to your role - but I can’t see how shifting heavy dirty things into my car can be classed as in relation to my role - something’s seem to fall under a cleaner or maintenance role. Maybe I just need to search for another job

This.

I doubt any job description will be a definitive list of what may be needed at some point. It depends if it’s a reasonable request.

on the face of it, it doesn’t sound like these are reasonable. Have they given you safety training for moving heavy items? If it’s your own car being used for tip runs - does your insurance cover business? If not and you have an accident in your way to the tip or back, you won’t be insured. Also I wouldn’t be putting dirty stuff in my own car for them anyway. Basic DIY - for an Office Manager for instance in a small company that might not be unreasonable depending on the task.

Without knowing the job specifics it’s tricky to say what is or isn’t reasonable, although it’s it’s a task that you cannot do safely then that is unreasonable and you need to discuss it with whoever is asking you to it it.
Cleaning, moving furniture, tip runs etc could be within that sort of remit though, I’m thinking back to when I worked for a small, new charity in an advisory role which was the central part of the job, but supporting the wider organisation set-up, literally the physical space, was also important for us all to muck in as a small team to achieve our aims.

Pretend you have a bad back.

So I don’t want to my out myself on here but I also want to know if I am being unreasonable.

I work with young adults - so cleaning with them would be classed as part of my role, not in my job description but I understand the need to support and guide. Not a problem with that.

Its when I am being asked do to these things for the sake of the service and not a young adult involved. So basically turning around void flats to get them ready for someone moving again. Should that be written as a job description as I didn’t expect it when applying

isnt it nice to have a bit of variety though?

If I could fit it in with my current workload

That sounds beyond reasonable. I can see how if you’re advising young adults you might help them clean or show them how to but turning around void flats takes it too far.

You ask about if you have an accident - they should do an investigation.

Why were you going what it was?
Had you been given the right tools and equipment?
Had you been given the correct training? Manual handling? COSHH?
Did you have the correct PPE?
Was all of the above followed?

We're all being asked to do more. If its not something you feel you should be doing speak up? Who did it before? What's changed now you are expected to do it?

Do you even have business use on your car insurance?

Don't do anything to do with your car. You're not insured to do things like tip runs, tell them that.
I once worked with someone that dropped something to a customer on the way home. He died in a crash on the way. He wasn't covered by insurance as he was performing work duties. His Wife and baby got nothing from the insurance.
Use the car as your leverage to refuse.

Lifting heavy things into your personal car and doing runs to the tip are not a reasonable part of your job. What would happen if you didn’t have a car? I am also guessing you don’t have manual handling training. I would push back on this.

Are you in a union? Is there one you can join? This is one of the many occasions when they are essential/useful.

Sounds similar to a role I used to work in - I was a support worker for young adults leaving care. The live in facility was intended to help them transition to independent living. Cleaning and prepping void units was very much a part of my role.

Have you been trained in every lifting? Are they following the rules about safe moving?
Are you qualified to do DIY
Unless the answer is yes to all of the above don't do it as you'll be breaching h&s laws

Was it in your job description or explained beforehand to you?

I have business use on my car insurance.

I was in a similar situation and in previous jobs I had helped out moving heavy dirty items and taking to local tip, I was younger and wanting to please my bosses.
I started in a new role and was the asked to do the same thing, ( was a travel agent and it was getting rid of holiday brochures )
it really did weigh down my car and I would get filthy in the process and it was physically heavy to shift.
So new boss said right,we are going to do a tip run will you load up your car and take to the tip.
I said no, as it’s wear and tear on my vehicle also it was after work, it was heavy and if I had an accident in the car or carrying heavy items and injured myself or another road user for heavy load. I wouldn’t be covered on my car insurance and if I injured myself the company’ s health and safety policy wouldn’t cover me as it’s outside of company premises.
my new boss was “ oh ok then, no worries”.
She totally got it as though the penny had finally dropped !
Dont do it for those reasons, if you get injured or your car gets bashed who’s going to pay ??? It is not in Company policy for you do do this .
Your boss is cutting corners and this is how injuries in the work place happen . Do they want to be sued ?

Be really nice about it and just say, I’m concerned and have been thinking about it and actually on a legal standpoint surely the company isn’t covered if I have an accident .
So it’s best I don’t do it .

stick to your guns and be assertive,
you can do this !!

I was expecting to say that we all do a little more/different than our JD, but this certainly goes far beyond a little difference.

Summarising the facts:

• You were advertised and hired for an ‘advisor’ role
• the duties of that role including visiting/talking etc to service users in their homes
• now you are being asked to do essentially ‘premises management’ and ‘cleaning’ functions
• this was not part of your JD

As PPs have said use your union if you’re in one or look at the info on ACAS if you’re not. I’d expect your next step is communicate by email that you were hired for a job with defined responsibilities per JD. You are concerned that you are being asked to do functions which materially differ from the JD. You haven’t been trained in those other functions or provided with appropriate equipment. This potentially puts yourself, service users, property, and ultimately your employer, at risk.

how you end the communication is really up to you, depending on what you are happy doing or want to change. Either

• I expect to continue to focus only on my core duties for which I am experienced and which I was hired for within my designated paid hours, OR
• I recognise the nature of the job is materially different than what I was advertised. I would like to arrange a discussion to document these changes and any training, contractual and salary adjustments which may be due as a result.

Id maybe look up salaries of jobs with the respective duties - you might be being shafted or if you accept the other duties you might end up with more/less pay progression.

I have raised this and spoken from a health and safety aspect. If I injured my back carrying something up 3 flights of stairs and needed time off work I am sure it would be questioned why I was doing that in the first place.

I would focus on the safety side of things and the fact that you don’t have time to do them, rather than ‘not in my job description’ which I think can come off a little bit inflexible/difficult. We all have to do things not in our job description sometimes, but what you’re being asked does sound unreasonable.

And if it’s not in writing your employer can say ‘they were just doing a favour or going beyond, we didn’t know they were doing that’

you need it in writing and you need to clarify re JD. That’s the entire basis of your contractual employment

if your manager refuses to put in writing you document conversations by email to them
per our conversation at lunchtime today, I again raised H&S concerns around the material change in my duties when visiting today’s clients including heavy lifting, disposal of belongings including personal belongings…

Are you allowed to use the tip in a work capacity? Ours is very strict about what you can and can't do. Another angle possibly.
I don't negotiate at work generally. There is no way on earth I'd be loading stuff into my car and going to the tip. They need to budget for waste removal.
They always seem to find the budget if really needed.