AIBU not to buy in about all of this net zero/environmentalism?

[ShanCran]

Okay, so I understand the need to look after the planet and all that but just feel that the whole “net zero” agenda is being pushed too hard and too fast. Things like “clean air zones” in cities. Surely that’s just a money making exercise?

I recycle where I can, but not as religiously as most. I also travel about 20,000 miles per year in my (small) petrol car and in my 28 years on the planet have travelled approximately 175,000 air miles. Some will say that I am awful and totally unreasonable - but I suspect that many will agree that the whole concept of net zero is being pushed too hard and too fast.

After all, for all the environmentalist rhetoric that is preached by many politicians, the King, numerous celebrities and the likes - I don’t see any of them being principled enough to reduce their airmiles (often travelling by air for trivial things) or travel less generally. I doubt that the personal carbon emissions of many of such “celebrities” is far from net zero themselves.

Renewable energy is cheaper than fossil fuels. Vested interests slow the transition to renewables, which damages the economy.

China is by far and away the fastest decarbonising economy. You only need to look at their adoption of electric transport to see that. As a vast country with limited fossil fuel reserves, why wouldn’t it for economic reasons alone?

If it's too late then why bother at all?

This is the way of thinking I’m now coming round to.

I genuinely believe we are all fucked. Climate change (whether man made or not), wars, failed multiculturalism, globalisation, increasing disparity between rich and poor, social unrest, mental health crisis….the list goes on.

I think we just need to accept that humans are doomed and live as best we can until we no longer exist.

I am glad I’m the age I am because I certainly don’t want to be around for it. I’ve said to DC to really think twice about having their own DC and bringing them into this cynical, misogynistic, war-ravaged, sickly planet.

Not that I think it's a reason not to make any changes myself but I've often thought at how climate unfriendly war is.....and there is A LOT going on in the world at the moment

I really don't know how to break this to you... but China isn't renowned for telling the truth and often has different departments lying to save face.

Much 'greenery' is actually painted rocks and dirt. China's environmental agency has admitted that firms are falsifying decarbonisation data.

In essence, it's complete bullshit. China is the world worst polluter and it's emissions has risen on average of 5% a year.

You're going to get absolutely roasted on here, but I agree with you.

I'll believe in "net zero" when celebrities and politicians ground their private jets, especially when flying to their "climate change" conferences. And I've become a lot more cynical and sceptical since 2020, when "truth" became incredibly distorted, and all the scientists and the tiny handful of politicians who dared to challenge the "people will die, so we must lockdown until the virus is eliminated" narrative were swiftly silenced, I don't know what to believe any more.

In the same breath as the wails about climate change, they keep telling us there's a "declining birth rate" crisis. The media loves the word crisis. How do we reconcile this with "climate change"? Surely fewer people in the world would be good for "climate change". I remember when the scary buzzword was "the greenhouse effect", and "the hole in the ozone layer".

Clean air zones have nothing to do with 'net zero' targets. They are to stop children dying of asthma.
We've known about climate change for at least 60 years and did virtually nothing about it. What's happening with net zero targets now is too little too late.

The economy won't matter if the planet is not inhabitable due to the climate/extreme conditions.

It was also always going to happen without us. We are at the very end of an ice age.

Firstly climate change is a fact and not a theory.

Secondly we can argue whether this climate change is just a historical cyclical phenomenon or whether it is linked to CO2 levels, but there is a very strong correlation between CO2 and average global temperatures.

Lastly if you want to reduce CO2 pollution (and all other forms of pollution) then by far the cheapest and most cost effective method is birth control and reducing the world population. There is an even stronger correlation between global population and global population.

Charts

Net zero targets are not too hard and fast - they are too soft and too slow.

However, I've also become very disillusioned with the climate crisis response and I think we are fucked. When I was younger I recycled everything, bought food carefully and refused to take planes. Now I don't see the point, because I genuinely believe that humans are programmed NOT to resolve this. I think we'd rather go to war over scarce resources that suffer the inconveniences required to address the problem.

We are moving from climate activism to climate exploitation - that's why Trump wants Greenland - because humans are ultimately selfish pillagers and that's why we've been successful.

I've also told my children not to have children. Their lives will be much worse than ours. We've passed Peak Human. I snort when I see people fretting about immigration now - we are going to have the world banging at the doors of Northern Europe once entire countries become uninhabitable. Life's gonna get shit and we don't actually care.

We (humans) have only been here (Earth) for a blink of the eye in terms of the time line of the planet, and when we're gone the Sun will still be there and so will the Earth. So will all the other infinite numbers of galaxy's and universes.

We evolved here. We do our thing. We die out. Other things will evolve after us. We think we're very important, but we're not.

People are overwhelmingly pro action on tackling climate change. A whopping 69% even say they would be willing to contribute 1% of their income to addressing climate change! (Which frankly would be a bargain compared to food price rises alone, never mind the other impacts of warming and extreme weather, which is killing our crops in the field even as I type)

But they underestimate how much other people agree with them, because of media misinformation.

www.carbonbrief.org/interview-why-global-support-for-climate-action-is-systematically-underestimated/

Net zero is the only way forward, anyone worth half a brain has realised this by now. I presume you've started this thread because you're bored OP.

There's no need to worry about the effects of net zero on the economy. There is loads of money to be made in a climate neutral economy (as the Chinese have already realised). And it's climate disaster that will have the worst possible effects on our economy, not net zero!

It definitely is needed but there isn't one size or one solution. Its multilayered and carbon reduction has been going on for years it just wasn't known about by Joe public and wasn't a popular political platform.
Renewables for the grid has ramped up significantly in the last 5 years which is good. The problem comes with trying to store it without football fields of batteries.

I don't believe it's pointless as climate can recover to a slightly different baseline as seen with the ozone layer which has had some recovery after CFCs were banned.
I take holidays abroad (the worst aviation from a pollution perspective is actually internal hour flights), drive a car etc. But I also recycle, clothes don't go to landfill, buy secondhand clothes where possible etc.

Also CO2 reduction would be futile unless also getting methane levels down as well which is far more harmful to atmosphere.

I must be imagining all the electric cars and buses. When was the last time you visited a Chinese city?

Yeah, they make them and charge them with cheap electricity from gas and coal fired power stations.

Poducing millions and millions of cars like that is in no way environmentally friendly.

Oh, Matt Riley! Now that's name I haven't heard since he breached the parliamentary code of conduct by not disclosing his financial interests in a company that supplies fracking equipment in a debate where he espoused the virtues of fracking.

And this man, who also owns land where there's an active coal mine, is against environmental regulations you say? Well fancy that.

It is important. But. The worst contributors are the wealthy, politicians etc all flying by private jets and owning super yachts. Even the likes of Attenborough are hypocrites, flying all over the world for documentaries. We need politicians etc to stop flying by helicopter, but these things will never happen.

But I’ll still do my bit because that’s responsible.

But that's simply not true. The worst contributors are things like fossil-fuelled power stations, deforestation and many manufacturing processes. A private jet or a super yacht isn't going to cause anywhere near as much harm as a coal-fired cement factory.

No it's not.

Renewables are more Expensive than Gas - by David Turver

Remember when skeptica said the same about the ozone layer? It's now almost repaired itself after the global cooperation

Clean Air Zones happened because councils didn’t manage to keep air pollution within legal limits, so the government forced councils to take action. Possibly there were better ways to tackle air pollution had councils taken action earlier - but we can’t know this because they didn’t. High levels of air pollution (specifically nitrogen dioxide) is linked to a number of illnesses - some long term (eg cancer) but some with immediate effect (eg asthma). So YABVU because asthma is horrible & frightening & can be fatal.

If you are against climate change action, you need to say which particular type of action that you disagree with as climate change action could mean lots of different things. One thing my council is doing is flood defence. Again, I think YABVU very unreasonable to oppose this as flooding causes a lot of misery for people.

I do agree that leadership is lacking - but then locally to me one reason why my council doesn’t always take the action it needs is that it isn’t always brave enough to face down anti-climate change etc views. As I said earlier, that can lead to letting problems slide until they have no option but to put in a drastic solution (like the clean air zones that you dislike).