Work announced a move from 2 days to 4 days

[Everanewbie]

Hi all. I'm looking for some suggestions of what avenues I might have.

I started a job just over a year ago. It is company that I worked for some time ago, but had to leave due to personal circumstances, which was with regret. I was thrilled to be offered the job. I applied and received the offer where I was told at both I was obligated to be in the office twice a week.

I left a job that was entirely remote (well, with the exception of trips in to London maybe once a month) to take up this role, accepting two days in person because I was excited by the role. Pay incidentally, is much the same, above the average, but only HRT if a decent bonus is paid. I now pay to park in a city centre twice a week and drive maybe 10 miles or so to get there.

I have child that is full time in nursery and my husband works long days. He is the main breadwinner in a job that is very well paid, think 6 figures, but only just. This means that I do the majority of nursery drop offs and pickups, however, he helps where his hours allow. We also have a dog. He is great at home on his own, but I only resort to that one day a week as a try to work my other day when my husband is off or on a shorter day.

So now, out of the blue, my firm have announced they expect people in the office 4 days per week. This will not work for me. Days will be too long, I'll be £60pw on parking, plus I will need to employ a dog walker 4 days a week. The salary no longer looks decent when you consider this.

I've heard about flexible working requests, and heard that these are considered on a case-by-case basis, but does any HR-y posters have any thoughts on the merits?

Would you be weighing up other options? Speaking to my manager, or holding my cards close to my chest?

I really don't want to leave this job, but I don't have the energy to be a mum and husband to do this, and the salary will no longer be competitive.

Those of you who keep mentioning the dog…I think the OP only told us that to set the scene. She accepted this job offer on the basis of it fitting in with her life. In her case, this includes children, husband, dog.

OP I would submit the flexible working request on the basis that you have organised your life around the job offer of 2 days per week being in the office. You’ve had good advice on how to word this.

We work to live, not live to work, therefore it’s totally understandable that this will have an impact on you and totally reasonable for you to be unhappy about it, whether or not your employer is legally able to do it or not.

100% - so many corporate jobs still involve WFH.

my DH works from home 2 days per week and is more productive than when he is in the office - less distractions.

These type of posts make me laugh. Your employer is running a company not a charity, you ask about flexible working arrangements! On what grounds? I don’t want to leave my dog at home? You’re being paid to do a job, whatever works for your employer is what you’re being paid for. Maybe they want people in the office because their sick of people dropping there kids off at nursery or walking the dog in work time. People seem to think that working from home means getting their chores done in work time!
most people have expenses relating to work, parking travel etc. 10 miles is not far to travel to work and the parking costs are hardly extortionate compared to the income you have coming in.

Your employer is running a company not a charity, you ask about flexible working arrangements! On what grounds?

You can request flexible working on any grounds - whether the company accepts it or not is down to them and whether or not they think the particular type of flexibility will work for the business. They have obviously decided that overall, 4 days in from everyone will suit them better, but that doesn't mean different flexible arrangements won't work, be it different start or finish times of whatever else. Depending on the business and role, it could work in their favour, e.g. being able to offer longer customer hours at no extra cost.

But a worker's request for flexibility- makes no difference if they need it for childcare, or dog care, or to get in another round of golf. It's the effect on the business that is the deciding factor.

I don't expect an employer to be a charity, far from it. You might not like WFH arrangements but I was offered a job on the basis of it being 2 days in the office and 3 days from home. I took that offer in good faith and left a fully remote job because I was excited by the opportunity.

I do not do chores while working, but I will often cook/clean etc. in the time that I would have been commuting.

My grounds for retaining my status quo, no special terms, only what I was offered, is that I accepted the job on the terms offered and expect them to honour them.

And about the dog? He pre-dates this company, pre-dates lockdown and I took the job based on the offer. Get this into your head!!!

''@Wendarl · Yesterday 20:55
i don’t know when people become so hellbent on sticking up for corporate in these scenarios.
“If they think it’s best for the business”… who is “they”.. usually a CEO and board made up of a very limited demographic and life experience. Sure I agree they will do “what’s best for the business” but why do we always assume business leaders do what is best.. they do what is best for them. Uk productivity has been diabolical for years, because we pay poorly, treat employees like shit and have no social infrastructure to support working families (childcare, travel costs most expensive in Europe). All those on the back to the office bandwagon, who are you fighting for and why?
OP if you have any power to leave and find a job that suits your lifestyle then please do it. Wield what limited power you have to live the life that helps you and your family to find a bit of peace and ease in this world that prioritises “what’s best for business” above pretty much everything else''

Exactly!

You accepted the job and pay based on two days a week in the office. It is going to greatly increase your costs for things like travel and parking. Are they going to meet those costs? I'd be pointing out to HR the terms under which you accepted the job as presumably this was a factor when you agreed to the salary.

People who comment without knowing what they're talking about make me laugh. Your comment is steeped in assumption, bias and resentment.
ALL employees in the UK have the legal right to make a flexible working arrangement request and the employer must give it reasonable consideration, but do not have to agree to it if it doesn't meet the business need. This right was enshrined in law by the Employment Rights Act 1996, as amended by the Employment Relations (Flexible Working) Act 2023, which removed the 26-week service requirement for making a request, making it a day-one right.

If people thought like you we'd have no weekends, annual leave, sick leave etc..Hoping you are a bot troll and not someone who can't assess fairness

Not every wfh job requires you to be sat at your desk 9-5 and plenty of people wfh work well beyond their hours precisely because they are set up to home.

Yep, I'll be working 7pm to 11pm one evening in a couple of weeks and taking the time in lieu. There's no way I'd do this for a company that was insisting I pointlessly sit in an office.

And I've been WFH since 2014, I'm amazed how so many think it didn't exist pre COVID

The main advantage to society of working from home is its impact on the commute and therefore its impact on climate change, about which we all should be concerned, no? I struggle to understand the logic of reversing the universal benefit of working from home to address the concerns of a handful of billionaires that they will lose rents from inner city properties.

“This will not work for me”

Oh to be an employer these days 😅

Amazed at the reaction to this post. Why can't women and other Mums support one another (not to mention employers).
People have lives outside of work and a supportive employer would do what they can to support an employee, not make life more difficult for them and go back on an agreement to work from home.
The world of work has changed post COVID and employers need to realise this if they want a happy and motivated workforce.
OP what you are asking for is not unreasonable and my view is stick to the original agreement. If your employers won't play fair take out a grievance, you have nothing to lose.

My partner and i are both in roles where we are office based two days a week and for the organisations we work for, it works well and it wouldn't work if everybody had to start being ok at the same time, there's not enough office space at my partner's hospital, there's not enough parking and he gets stung £43 a day if he can't park in an actual space! My workplace is open-plan and the noise would be ridiculous if many teams were in at the same time so we would struggle with the calls we have to take, we'd be scrambling for parking over the road that costs nearly £5 a day. So there can be good, justifiable reasons for keeping WFH in place.

A lot of people of they had to go back to being in offices more days a week, may struggle with concentration because they are used to the quiet at home.

What I would say though is that nobody should take the Mick with working from home, I've seen MN threads were people are going shopping, taking the kids places, sat watching Netflix all when they are supposed to be working! There was a woman complaining that her £95k year job wouldn't let her reduce her hours for the same money to pick kids up from school. For those of us that don't have kids, it's weird at times seeing how much some that do, want to pick and choose when they'll work.

Also I'd advise against anyone taking jobs that are a massive commute away on the hope that the WFH arrangement never changes.

As for OP, definitely discuss it with your manager as to whether there's any justifiable reason or merit for those two extra days in the office.

The dog is irrelevant.
My dd was in a similar situation, she'd been going in one day a week for well over a year as had many others. This has now been changed to at least three days, however when she spoke to her managers they agreed she could continue with one day. She works hard, is always available to her colleagues, many of whom work abroad, and works more hours than contracted. There are redundancies being made at the moment, but she's been categorically assured that she will not be affected - which is obviously always a worry in this sort of situation.
As@FlyMeSomewheresuggests, many offices wouldn't have space for everyone in any case.

What @Clychaugog was trying to say is that whilst employees in the UK don't have full employment rights with less than two years service, all employees have the right not to be discriminated against from day one of their employment (and that potential discrimination is as laid out in the Equality Act 2010, which defines the nine protected characteristics e.g. age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation). So, whilst employees with fewer than two years service don't generally have the right to bring an Unfair Dismissal claim to ET, they do if their claim is based on alleged discrimination (which, of course, includes disability discrimination).

The ACAS information is correct as far as it goes, just as you would expect it to be, but it was posted on here in an incomplete manner, because it takes no account of contract variation clauses and the poster seems to have no knowledge of them. I explained this to OP two days ago, and then again yesterday:

AngelicKaty · Yesterday 17:35
OP, I think it's worth checking something before making a flexible working request (that the business could reasonably refuse based on business need).
Whilst an employment contract can vary the terms outlined in a previous offer letter, this can only be done if both the employer and employee agree to the changes or if the contract contains a variation clause, which allows your employer to unilaterally make certain changes. Does your contract contain a variation clause, OP? (It's usually very obvious as it's generally sub-titled something like "Variations"). If it doesn't, you could argue that your employer doesn't have the right to unilaterally change your working location/pattern as laid out in your offer letter.

So, it's key that you check to see if your contract contains a variation clause which allows your employer to make unilateral changes, because even if your offer letter does form part of your contract, a variation clause that allows them to make unilateral changes means they can change the terms laid out in the offer letter too.

Sorry! I didn’t see that you had made that post, I just had read the OP’s posts and saw where the cut and paste was incomplete….and didn’t want her to rely on that! No intent to be rude, and your explanation was much fuller!

No worries, I didn't think you were being rude to anyone at all.😊 I just wanted to point out that the information, as presented to OP by a pp, was incomplete rather than incorrect. 🤗

I love your precision!!!

There is just so much toxicity and rudeness online, with the keyboard warriors - so I just wanted to clarify that it wasn’t that. You know when you just read the OP posts and I was like no, no, no, very bad ‘legal advice’ and pinged something back quickly!

Thanks for the lesson, I’m well aware. I think you give pp too much credit. The tone of the pp seemed to imply some people have more rights than others, hence my response.

You're welcome. 😊

@ZamaZama I live at the other end of the country (think 300 miles) away from my work. I'm very, very glad that I got it put down in my contract that I was entirely remote and had it stated that I would be required to attend no more than 'x' amount in the office.

They've tried to apply pressure on me since then, expecting me to come in once a month just to have an extra person to tick off as being in-office. Hours & hours of travelling, all on the company's expenses (which probably come out of my salary increases, in the end).

Thankfully, after pointing out what's in my contact to them several times, and the terms on which I was hired, they've given up asking.

If that was me though I would be feeling vulnerable because it's a big cost to pay you all the expenses to come in. If they decide to start cost cutting, you'll be probably the one with the axe over your head it they think they can do without you.

@FlyMeSomewhere Yes, which is why I think they've stopped asking me to come in as much and let me decide a bit more. I've escaped 3 rounds of cuts already so it's unlikely I'll go at this point. There are reasons why they keep me around - mostly because I'm one of the most diligent and experienced people in the team by now.