To hate mixed sex toilets?

[Futurehappiness]

We have them at work. They are the only kind....no female toilets option.

Single fully enclosed cubicles in a row. They are claustrophobic & can be very smelly. I actually don't feel they are all that safe; what if somebody was taken ill & fainted in one? Nobody would know.....at least in ladies toilets there is a gap at the top/bottom and people coming and going, that just feels a lot safer to me.

I don't know why I mind when I am going to the loo and see a man coming in/out of a cubicle but I do. The toilets do get dirty & smelly because many people don't clean up after themselves properly, I am sure they are worse than ladies' ones.

I don't know why it is a thing for so many people to try to force/rattle the door when not sure whether a cubicle is occupied, risking breaking the (flimsy, often broken) locks - I am sure it is worse too than in ladies' toilets. What is wrong with knocking, or gently trying the door? Why would people not be specially conscious of not invading others' privacy in mixed loos? And of course in a mixed toilet there is a risk here of a bloke bursting in when you are on the toilet.

I am realising that I am actually trying to avoid needing to go to the loo at work. By not drinking too much water (even in this hot weather) or holding on until I get home. This is all new to me to feel this way, but I would feel awkward to complain, wouldn't know how to present the complaint, and don't know if I would be taken seriously or labelled as a troublemaker.

You would have thought not but that’s a reason prominent lawyers have said we shouldn’t have single sex loos.

Let your bosses know what you'd prefer. I don't see why some cubicles can't be labelled male/female.

Can you take one over as the ‘ladies loo’ by stealth and practice? Make sure is enormous basket of San pro , hairsprays, perfume, tights. Add nice hand wash, soaps etc. Agree with other women to adopt a shocked look when you see a bloke come out of it. Instead of wee on seat , always leave blood in pan (😖).

Although there may be pervy or misogynist men who like transgressing and get a kick out of this.

Another tactic is just to ask employer. If they demur ask how often they’re checking for cameras?

Sorry, this is going to be long.

My employer is currently in the process of converting both the male and female toilets on the ground and first floors of the main block to mixed sex. So removing six female cubicles with 7 sinks and 4 had driers and guessing around 6 urinals, 3 cubicles, 4/5 sinks and 4 hand driers from the men's. I assume these will be replaced with just 4 mixed sex, fully enclosed rooms as I doubt there is room for more in the existing space. So a loss of at least 5 cubicles before we even consider urinals and sinks.

In my previous workplace (newly built) all the toilets, both staff and clients/public were self-contained single occupancy. I always felt slightly queasy at the thought of sitting on a toilet still warm from my male boss's arse (or any other part that may have touched it) so preferred to use one of the public ones on the floor below. These were often rank, not infrequently someone had obviously pissed in the corner rather than use the pan.

The red/green indicator on the doors were so small that it was impossible to tell if they were occupied without bending down and squinting, (not dodgy looking at all) or physically trying the door.

There was no way of knowing who, if anyone, was waiting outside. Another reason I didn't use the staff ones, if I've just spent 15 mins trying either to pass a stool the size of a pineapple or with explosive diarrhoea I don't want to emerge to come face to face with my boss or another colleague. There may also be occasions where you jus need a few minutes to collect yourself with no-one in your face.

One of the advantages of the traditional row of cubicles is that you know you're not holding anyone else up and there's a high enough "turnover" in the other cubicles that you can "wait it out" till no-one knows how long you've been in there or who was making the noise/smell.

Back to my current employer. There was a consultation on changing the toilets before I started so obviously I missed the boat to respond but apparently the results were about 50% of respondents felt either "uncomfortable" or "very uncomfortable" with the idea of mixed sex toilets, about 30% felt "comfortable" or "very comfortable" with the rest either neutral or undecided. The employer decided to go ahead anyway. Given the timescales, I doubt if this was in response to the SC judgement, but must have been in the pipeline already.

I'm still in my probationary period so won't be raising my head above the parapet on this one, but neither will I be using the new toilets. I'll either go up a couple of floors or to the other block and many of my colleagues have said the same.

This needs raising- initially as a cleanliness and smell issue. Sounds disgusting.

I think they are a useful additional thing to have in a large building where there is the space to do so. (Or in a very small place where there's only one loo).

But they are terribly inefficient in terms of space and reducing queues. So anywhere busy you want most loos to be the old style setup. Then someone can be in the cubicle while you wash your hands, sort makeup etc. And in certain places there is a camaraderie in the ladies loos. You will never have that with enclosed rooms. But having a few of those is useful in terms of dealing with difficult periods, small children or a terrible case of the farts.

Female only toilets in my experience have been cleaner and don’t have a horrid putrid smell that men’s loos seem to have. The toilet seat is clean and not covered in piss. Men that piss on seats and leave it there need to understand that women sit on the seat to use the loo. Don’t be inconsiderate!!! Women need our own personal space end of. I hate going into the mixed loos now. I don’t feel comfortable either with males using the same area who are strangers to me.

These don’t comply with building regulations or Health and Safety at work (1992).
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/toilet-accommodation-approved-document-t

Thanks @Keeptoiletssafe

It's a large building comprising several inter-connected blocks and there are several"traditional" single-sex toilets available, just not on the ground and first floors of the main block. I don't know if that still contravenes regulations.

I appreciate your point (and all the work you're putting into this) but I've only been there 3 months and don't want to "mark my card" while I'm still on probation.

That's not to say I won't keep my powder dry for a later date.

Edited to add, I'm not sure if you mean my previous employer's new build didn't conform. The nearest "traditional" set up there was in different buildings altogether. Also this is in Scotland, if that makes a difference. (I'm sure the SNP ScotGov would love it just to be a free-for-all).

The disabled toilet, so a mixed sex toilet, so the same facility just with added accessible features.

For me, the ladies loo is a kind of sanctuary. I do not want men in there! It is a slightly intimate space. I would not want male colleagues hearing me wee or seeing me at the sink putting on lipstick. It is just for me, a boundaried space. Thank God here in Germany many men wee sitting down, but men's loos still feel gross. Same with changing rooms. Maybe a minority opinion. we have one mixed sex loo at work and I just avoid it and hope to god they don't increase this. I don't like it anywhere.

I realised recently that I have never worked in a place that didn't have mixed sex loos. I never found it odd or a problem. Having said that I always worked for smallish companies, and in buildings that were usually old houses (in one case, it was the boss's actual house).

I'm not saying this to invalidate anyone's concerns, but frankly no shared loos are wonderful and you want to spend as little time in them as possible.

I didn’t realise that men’s piss smells much more strongly than women’s until gender neutral loos came along. My first experience was in the NPG or the Wallace Collection, I can’t remember which and at first sight I thought “How civilised!” I changed my mind at first sniff. Mine wasn’t filthy but there must have been drops on the floor. Subsequent experience suggested it wasn’t a one off.

They don’t bother me, but I respect that some hate them.

But, fundamentally lockable away from the opposite gender.

If they are currently in the process of changing them you could say that it would save money to have them done to building regs standards and health and safety standards. If there were any incidents in the future it is the employer who is held liable. Your boss probably may think differently if he realised he is responsible.

Yes in Scotland it does make a difference. I believe British Standards are still applicable though. And the 1992 Act is too.
See this which may also help @Futurehappiness too:
https://www.theretailbulletin.com/retail-solutions/legal-do-retailers-have-to-provide-single-sex-toilets-and-changing-rooms-for-their-customers-and-staff-19-05-2025/

We have both. the unisex ones are much cleaner than the “ladies”. The “ladies” seem to think flushing is optional and toilet paper is floor decoration. Never been in the “gents”, but apparently its similar.
All are on the same cleaning frequency.
None of that in that unisex ones, they are spotless.
Gender specific toilets do seem to attract the more unpleasant people, unisex people who are more aware.

Do these statistics include girls being attacked by transgender girls in single sex toilets at school?

I have never heard of it that way round before. It’s been scientifically studied and it’s never been the conclusion that mixed sex is safer or cleaner.
Can you tell me where this anomaly is?

Absolutely nailed it.

@Keeptoiletssafe big multinational, R&D facility, southeast of the UK. about 1000 people on site, very multicultural.
Headquarters in London has only gender specific facilities, and the “ladies” are disgusting within an hour of being cleaned.

Do you mean sex specific?

edited to say: that is important as you said it is multicultural. Some cultures won’t use unisex toilets.

@Keeptoiletssafe gender specific. no idea about people’s sex, we don’t do genetic testing before employing people.
Cultures are predominately european, Americas, about 50% british (for women, i would think predominantly british).
I’m quite happy with the situation- if you insist on gender specific facilities, deal with the state of them.
For the rest of us, there are lovely clean loos.

What statistics are you talking about ? 🤷‍♀️ it was a graphic in the post of 11.08.

and I prefer clear language.I assume when you say transgender girls you mean male sexed children?

This thread is not about trans identifying boys but is about mixed sex toilets.

Why shouldn’t female children have single sex toilets in school? We know that the law says that they should have. We also know that where girls are forced to share with boys there are higher incidence of sexual assault and higher incidence of school avoidance during periods .

what I wonder is why female children matter so little to you!

Apologies if this is a bit of a detour from office toilets but I thought I should answer this. Here are some statistic about school toilets.

In 2015/2016 the BBC did an investigation into rapes and sexual assaults happening in schools. It’s important to note the location inside the building wasn’t reported in each case. There was a storage cupboard mentioned and I know of a disabled toilet mixed sex, private). There were over 600 rapes in a 3 year period. With a 190 day school year, that’s averaging 1 per school day. It was noted, and this is confirmed by a review in 2021 by Ofsted, that actual figures of sexual assaults are likely to be much higher - they don’t get reported.

Since then, toilet provision has changed a lot. It appears to be following all different designs from the girls and boys toilets we were used to having and that I taught in. The Department of Education holds no risk assessments nor Equality Impact Assessments on the design changes.

Again, it is difficult to get statistics centrally as no one collates numbers as far as I know (Ofsted also had this problem), so to get more recent numbers you have to do individual Freedom of Information requests with police forces. These are the numbers from recent FOIs.

The exact location of each assault is not noted but it is reasonable to assume most serious assaults will be in a private, unsupervised space, open to mixed sex:
Essex Police
West Mercia Police
Metropolitan Police
Warwickshire Police
West Yorkshire Police

Many of these figures will be even lower as they cover the time schools weren’t open over Covid.

Schools do not need more of these private, mixed sex toilets.

Neither do workplaces or venues.
It affects all of us at our most vulnerable - where a person is having a medical emergency or being assaulted.