What to with 6yo who always answers back?

[Reddressdancing]

DS6 is coming to the end of Year 1, and he is incredibly argumentative.

He claims to know everything and always be right, and if he says something which he then realises was inaccurate he will backtrack/lie about it, despite the fact that we openly own our mistakes in our family. He also behaves like this when he unreasonably demands his own way.

We try to calmly discuss this with him and then he starts shouting, crying, saying thay no-one loves him, and that we're horrible. He even hits us from time to time.

Not helped by the fact that DD9 is very timid and well behaved, meaning that she is rarely in trouble, which DS6 sees as unfair, and she also kowtows to his bloody awful behaviour. I feel bad for her.

These outbursts probably happen two or three times a week and we're exhausted. AIBU to ask you wise Mumsnetters for advice?

I'd probably stop entering into discussions with him, as it doesn't seem to help? If he starts arguing or whatever just say 'ok'/'we can disagree but this is whats going to happen' and move on?

Does anything in specific trigger it? Can you discuss things more calmly at another time, get him involved with plans for the week (i.e. give him the feeling of control)?

It sounds really tiring x

Thanks. Maybe i should stop calling him out on it. But for example he'll say 5+2 is 8 then I'll do the sum with him so he sees it's 7 and then he'll say, yes that's what i said... and it just really grinds my gears!

I’d just laugh gently and say ok then. It’s just a phase he’s going through. He’s probably becoming more aware that he’s the youngest and knows less than the rest of the family and is trying desperately to show that he can keep up. He’ll grow out of it. I wouldn’t make a thing of it or react.

If it’s something unimportant like a sum, don’t continue the conversation. If he says the earth is flat, say that’s interesting and change the topic. I had a child who liked to debate everything (still would as an adult but I don’t engage) and it’s exhausting.

Following as have the same issue and my DD is also the same age so wondering if it's just developmental. I find myself not saying anything these days as I don't need the hassle but then feel bad she is going on unchecked. I think she lacks confidence perhaps and feels the need to asset herself that way.

Meh with that i guess it depends what works best. You could just say 'ok' and move on. Maybe you could play into it 'no it's 23!' Depends on his personality.

It sounds like he is protecting himself from feeling inadequate. If he says 5+2 is 8 try your best not to say 'no it's not....'.
Try things like 'I can see how you got to that' or 'yes, that's what I thought when I first saw it'.
The worst thing you can do is keep engaging to prove him wrong. He knows he wrong once you've explained, so just drop the rope on your end.
There's lots out there about lying....it's very developmentally normal and unless something major, just ignore it. Adults lie all the time (in many ways it's a survival technique and a skill, like lying to get out of a dangerous situation) and it's not good to put expectations of being perfect on a child. Ignore and it will hopefully eventually subside. If lying gets a big reaction (even a negative one) then that's a huge incentive to keep doing it.

I have a dd who is the “little lawyer” variant of autistic. These are children who from a surprisingly young age will want to debate everything and find every loophole. We just met her where she was and treated her as a worthy opponent. Sometimes we lost to a 4yo. She was very smart. We learned to choose our words carefully and speak even more precisely than our default. My default is fairly precise because I am also a hyperlexic autistic individual so ratcheting up my accuracy turned makes our conversations occasionally sound like a legal briefing.

if something was important, we learned to put it in writing like a contract between all of us and have everyone sign it. Dd was involved in drafting the contracts. This saved many arguments.

My DGD exactly. She has just turned 7 and has been doing exactly the same for a while. Never admits she is wrong and gaslights if she realises she is wrong. She is also very bright and stubborn and is an only child.
She really does think she's in charge! If I put my foot down on something she will say "Grannies winding me up!" She struggles with the word no! But she is so funny too. Must be an age thing and her Mum is still bossy and stubborn though at 33.🙄

Be very careful to display or feel no favouritism, as this would make matters 1000% worse in the longer and shorter term.

You say he’s extremely argumentative, it takes two people to have an argument. Could he be copying the example he’s being shown?

Thanks everyone, lots of useful feedback here. For info, I don't show favouritism and nor am I argumentative, I just like accuracy! But I understand what you're saying about not fighting over every detail. He told a maths-related whopper again today and i just said okay and left it there, which definitely avoided another situation.

There are other times when it's harder to leave alone, like when we're walking home from school and his sister is speaking. Even if he's had the floor most of the way he'll butt in if she speaks for more than a minute and say he's never allowed to speak, it's so unfair, we're horrible etc. I know it's hard for him to understand and I've explained how it feels longer when you're listening etc, and I have to put my foot down or DD doesn't get to speak.

I would definitely leave the “unimportant fact” statements, as no need to argue about those. DS: “Elephants have antlers!” You: “Oh really? That’s interesting”, Move on… Honestly why get into a pointless argument about it, you’re just winding him up/ trying to show you’re more knowledgeable than him, which will make him feel small.

On the not letting others speak, that’s different as it’s rude and a crucial social skill. Maybe you could set a timer for each one to speak so he sees it really is a fair division of time? Then once he’s used to being the listener for say 3 mins, you can stop using the timer and he should be able to handle it.

Thanks @travelpanic. I think the timer might be a good idea. He hopefully won't be able to argue with that.

For the other point, I'm really not trying to prove my intellectual prowess. I just worry that if I don't correct him he'll go around believing stuff that simply isn't true. I feel like it's my job to help him learn that kind of thing.

Offering an alternative view point - I think you need to be firmer with him.
Talking to him calmly about it isn’t working. I’m not saying being an arsehole but when mine try things like this, I give my mom glare and tell them to stop being cheeky. It works.

following as I have the same issue with ds! (7)

Just to add to this, sometimes 7yo DS will tell me a fact I didn’t know that he learned at school that IS true and I will react positively to that.

Well he will learn those things as he grows, reads, watches and comes into contact with more and different people. Never get into arguments with small children if at all possible. You never really ‘win’.
If he’s been corrected on a basic fact then he knows he got it wrong- as the adult
he will inevitably know you are actually right- but he’s never going to admit it. It makes him look foolish.
Issues about basic manners are different.

He won’t go around believing stuff that isn’t true. He knows the truth really, he’s just working out how people react to lies and seeing if he can get away with it. I wouldn’t get into arguments with him or try and correct him. Just say ‘ok, that’s nice’ at the same time as giving him a look that tells him you don’t believe him. He needs to learn that there is no power in his lies, including the ones where he says no one loves him.

It's really, really irritating but it is common at that age. I'd pick your battles as much as possible. I'd probably make it into a joke 'No, you didn't you cheeky monkey! You said it was 8!' and then move on. Or ignore completely if you can bear it.

If you think about it an adult arguing with a six year old because he got a sum wrong and couldn't admit it is probably worse than the six year old not owning a mistake in the first place! I mean it really doesn't matter does it?!

So no father christmas/ easter bunny/ tooth fairy?

I'd be using his powers for the benefit of the family. Let him research where to go on holiday and make the plans and find the bargains.

Sure, if you say so
Okay maybe on this one we will agree to disagree
I did not think so but maybe you are right why don't you double check / ask Alexa etc (then he can argue with Alexa instead)
I was not listening sorry why don't you repeat it (gives him a chance to correct himself!)

Positive attention / reaction when he says something that's right, entering into a discussion on that topic etc - and no reaction / interest when it's wrong? Worth a shot. But zero tolerance for bullying / shouting down his sister; and when it's straight-up lying about what he just said, call it out every time.