Which of your children would take up arms if need be to defend their country

[Lardychops]

Ive been thinking about this a lot lately in a thought experiment/abstract way since Ukraine invasion and having lived years ago in Israel where young people do national service from 17 as a matter of course with frequent refreshers- obviously now for them being put to the test .
So, my question is -
In terms of the ‘barbarians at the gates scenario which of your children/neices /nephews /siblings parents would drop everything to defend their country/ city/town/ village and family if they needed to ? And do you think their lifestyle/career path impacts on this?

I have 1DD single mother of 3 - she would have been first in the queue pre kids and if I looked after them she would be first to front line

3x DS - all tradesmen- without hesitation- 1 has a child but a partner - he would be first on the front line after his sister. One of them would be terrified but his pride would make him follow his brothers to protect his family rather than any bigger picture

1xDSD - works in retail -No doubt she would pick up arms and fight to the death.

1xDSD- left Uni-just got back from travelling - nothing in hospitality- no chance.

I have no independence, asa woman I cannot afford to live in this country independently of my husband. And as for protesting, bring back all those who have lost their careers, or been unable even to start, for daring to protest in favour of the environment or in favour of women’s rights.

Stating your age does you no favours with me, boomer. Go look at the threads about the unearned wealth of our parents.

Is the UKworth defending? Are the Royal Family and similar, their wealth, arrogance and lack of interest in any of us, worth my kids deaths? What about our politicians, landlords and rich shareholders destroying the NHS, democracy and law? What about the drug gang dealers and rapists who get away with it?
Don’t think so. I dont think anything in Britain is worth one hair off their heads to be honest.

@OrdinaryMagicOfAcorns yes, the UKmay have its problems, certainly, though the regime of the successful invaders may be worse.
(Though I suppose the new regime may be able to reduce crime more effectively than the UK is doing at present).

I need to say that I'm a democrat. I voted against us leaving the EU as I feel that our only hope was with Europe & have the ideal of Britain being an independent state with in a republic of Europe - along the lines of what we have in the UK with Wales, Scotland, NI having differing laws etc.

But the masses didn't agree and I accept that.

DH didn't agree & voted to leave - he says that he so regrets it now.

Me? I say the masses voted to leave, I'm a democrat it's now up to the Govt to make it work.

That's a very interesting and sensible perspective. I don't think I'd realised until now , but you have a clarity of perspective that seems to come from belonging to a country united in its purpose and its sense of solidarity (a dirty word in the UK since Thatcher at least). In the UK, on the other hand, most of the populace are on the losing side of a class war and are finally realising it.
@OrdinaryMagicOfAcorns ' last post sums it up best. Some people try to take refuge in a deluded, jingoistic nationalism and the rest, faced with insurmountable social and political problems, have simply given up trying to make anything better. For various geographical and geopolitical reasons the UK is less vulnerable to invading armies than Finland - but we also care far less, having less to lose. The only moral, pro-social people despise what the UK has become, while the self-proclaimed patriots are just cowardly far right thugs who would be the first to run and hide in any emergency.

Indeed.

It doesn't do any harm to give thanks to who or what ever there is that we don't live in those times. Who knows, it might allow us to feel empathy for those that do.

I own absolutely nothing outright. I have one mortgage on one home that my husband and I work hard to pay. That we both retrained and studied hard midlife to pay. I value the (state) education that this country gave me, the freedom to express myself and safety to live my life without fear or danger. And that is what I would be fighting for.

Some people try to take refuge in a deluded, jingoistic nationalism and the rest, faced with insurmountable social and political problems, have simply given up trying to make anything

If none of the political parties can improve matters then what is the solution? Or maybe there is no solution.

Spend some time getting kicked around the UK's private rental sector, then come back and tell us that ownership (or at the very least a secure tenancy) isn't necessary to a sense of belonging.

We had homes fit for heroes, and we tossed them away to whatever grubby little carpet bagger was ready with a couple of grand. Without the homes, don't expect the heroes.

The Labour party could have made a positive change, but they won't. The left needs a new party and will hopefully get one, but that's for another thread!

@Charlottejbt thank you for answering my question.

Some really interesting points coming up here linking home ownership and investment in the nation’s future. This strongly links to research done a few years ago on the future of the (pro-military, pro-patriotism) Conservative Party that concluded that they’re done for because their whole appeal is based around a culture of home ownership that is disappearing.

If there was an invasion by land air and sea and it’s existential all of us. Theres one or two I wouldn’t entirely trust with a gun and I’m not sure what I could do but everyone would pitch in. I don’t think there would be many other options really.

It helps to have a threat on your doorstep to develop a national sense of solidarity - willingness to defend Finland is very high amongst all groups. Also helps to have a society which isn't quite as unequal as the UK (though Finland is getting more and more unequal sadly) so everyone feels they have a stake in their country.

I doubt the all the Ukrainians thought their country was perfect but many still defend their country. This isn’t jingoistic it is simply the only option sometimes.

Some really interesting points coming up here linking home ownership and investment in the nation’s future.

Much as the Romans settled their retired soldiers with grants of lands in invaded countries to solidify the occupation (see upthread). And they didn't invent the idea.

And the last time Finns fought to defend our country, they were rewarded on their return with plots of land to build homes on (from prefabricated parts to the same basic plan so there are similar houses in every town in Finland called front line man homes - I live in one) so there's reason to believe the government won't be ungrateful.

The very best student I ever had was a Finn. I hope your fine young people don't ever end up as cannon fodder and I salute your morale.

I am mildly surprised this hasn't been turned into a reality show. Maybe you could have a tie-in with the US version about competing for a green card ?

The UK having nukes makes this question pretty irrelevant.

A reality show where they have to build houses to the same plan and see which team of 3 or 4 people (how many it took) built theirs fastest? I'd watch that.

Without the homes, don't expect the heroes.

Oh well said.

This is so interesting

As is the thread (thanks OP!). I also wonder about the links - increasingly weakening - between social activities to honour people who fought for our country and freedom, Remembrance Day, and reduced willingness to fight for our country in future.

My kids are too young and one severe LD anyway. Absolutely not. I wouldn't let them. Certainly not to defend Israel either if that is what is being suggested.

My son is integrated with children from lots of different nationalities and heritages, so wars based on racial or religious ideology seem like madness to him. Sorry to disappoint. I think you will find most young people these days are smarter and more compassionate than the dick swinging morons we have running much of the world now. You will have a hard job convincing them.

Less remembering of the sacrifices people made to keep us free might indeed make people today less inclined to think their country is worth protecting. In Finland Independence Day is pretty much all about remembering those who fought the Russians (and later Germans), a solemn affair with wreath laying at cemeteries across the country, school children have flag raising ceremonies and stand as an honour guard at the cemetry the day before, the Unknown Soldier film is on tv every year, and then there's other days to specifically remember the fallen, honour the defence force, things like that. It runs a deep line through society.

I note you are talking about your children going and not your precious self.
I would move my kids and myself to somewhere neutral and let the madmen causing this blow each other to fucking bits.