Is our town a shithole..

[FroggletTowers]

Or is this happening anywhere else?

I have been discussing this with friends, family and colleagues recently so won't name our town for privacy reasons, but it is a regular, large town in England, UK.
Nothing particularly special or awful about it, previously.

Since the pandemic, the entire vibe has changed. Almost unrecognisable.
Yes, we have some heavy shop closures like many towns, but the council kept it looking decent as much as it could. Some nice buildings and nature areas, etc.

What stands out most, apart from the general vandalism and dog shit is the weird accumulation of male groups hanging around boozing in public.

So far they have taken over the local park, river walks and nature reserves. They often cluster beneath bridges or across paths where people like to run, cycle walk dogs or take children, making it less safe and filling these areas with waste. Off road bikes have ruined the nature reserves, so less people visit

Sadly the authorities don't seem to be doing much about it, it is as if these people don't have to abide by laws that the rest of us have to. Some buildings adjacent to these areas have windows put through on a regular basis, even in what you'd call 'nice' areas.
Many of them cluster at river bridges and block the path for others, most are very drunk or out of generally.
It isn't unusual to see a large man passed out across the pathway, blocking anyone getting past. If you had a pram or bike it would be really uncomfortable to have to rouse a large drunk at 2pm in the afternoon. Most are local men, with a growing amount of middle eastern men. The vast majority of them are unstable.

We see less women out cycling, walking or exercising now, and this encompasses both MC and WC areas. These people seem to have just multiplied and spread across the entire borough and have taken over all public space.
We live in a decent area that is now seeming to go downhill.
It isn't unusual to see day drinkers sat alone, surrounded by cans on a quiet residential street. And they won't move to let you past.

It's really depressing.

It’s not that bad in my small town (we have one barefoot bloke who wanders about reciting rubbish to himself who clearly has issues and we had one homeless man who recently disappeared) but as a pp said, I’ve noticed it a lot in seaside towns.
I go to seaside towns regularly and in every one I’ve seen groups of drunk middle aged men congregated around town. My husband’s theory is that people with issues run away from home and end up at the coastal towns when they can go no further.

Well let’s say you have three light bulbs.

Two don’t work. The third one, you haven’t tried yet.

Do you just keep trying the first two hoping for a different outcome - I’m sure there’s a saying about that.

People complain about the NEETs and long term benefit claimants - 'They should get a job!' everyone says. But what jobs? There aren't any. You cannot expect people to conjure their own jobs up out of thin air.

De-industrialisation has been going on since the 1980s and successive governments have done nothing to counteract this, they should be encouraging business to invest in these areas. The current government has decided to make energy the most expensive in the developed world and make hiring labour difficult and expensive, but they are just the latest in a long line of useless government.

Seaside towns also have river walks. Depends where they are.
But I think the main problem is that no-one is allowed to live somewhere that's nice anymore. We have not this problem, but half-way houses of various sorts dotted into residential areas that are pleasant, whether MC or WC - it's as if it is deliberate upon the part of the council, because everyone should have to live in a shithole because some people do (no idea that they might do something about the shitholes).

Might as well give a new party a go.

I said none of them.

Sounds absolutely wonderful 🥰 where is this utopia?

We had previously considered moving to Ludlow, but have recently been warned that it has started to change....for the worse.

Your husband’s theory might need assessing. Don’t know of many runaways in the seaside town I grew up in 🤷‍♀️ Maybe they were able to run away even further?

Only place I've seen men in groups drinking on the street in the last ten years locally have been homeless people, although when I say locally, I do mean in one of the worst towns in the county and around a 40 minute drive. I live rurally, lots of villages between and around small towns. Nothing like this in those.

I did notice a big change in street drinking in a town in the Lake District a few years back. Polish community, not rowdy at all, just drinking with friends. Our impression from speaking to other Polish people in the area was that they didn't feel awfully welcome, especially in pubs, so they were congregating to stay social and support each other.

It's pretty obvious what's happening. Lots of illegal immigration which will mean its harder for them to get employment and thousands of asylum seekers being dumped throughout the country particularly in deprived areas of the north. Most of those are young men.

A lot less jobs for those that are allowed to work due to the ENI changes so things will get worse on the loitering about front.

Unemployment figures rising too.

This sounds like NYC about 10 years ago. They implemented a "quality of life/broken windows" policy where small offenses were actually policed. It made a huge difference in the city's character.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/26/us/crime-us-quality-of-life-policing

I don't recognise what you are mentioning in my (very middle class, affluent) town however there have been some big issue sellers/beggars (always non-British) in the last few years and recently one homeless man (white British) was sleeping in a shop doorway for around 6 months - he seemed to have MH issues. This was right through the bitterly cold winter and I was shocked that he didn't seem to be getting any help or moved on by the police.

Our nearest city - Manchester - has changed beyond recognition in the last 5 years or so, some good stuff some bad but one thing I've noticed is the huge increase in the different nationalities of people. The town I grew up in just outside Manchester (a poor working class town) used to be predominantly white, there were about 2 black kids and 3 Asian kids in my whole school year, now friends tell me their white kids are in the minority due to the massive increase in immigration and the fact they are moved into apartment blocks in poorer areas like this.

I have no judgement though - I don't live there and can't comment whether this has made the area worse or better in terms of crime - it was always rough when I was growing up.

The third one is riddled with fascists and is not for working people. Reform look good on paper to a 'certain demographic' purely due to their harsh immigration stance, but they are a party for the wealthy in terms of their policies and voting records. They are all for decimating workers rights and lowering taxes for the rich. If you take a look at the mess they are making in the councils they are now running, you wouldn't want them in charge of the Nation. Piss up & brewery, basically.

I tried so hard not to use the word cunts in that sentence. It was so hard. I might reward myself with a biscuit 😂

Our town is the gateway to one of the most beautiful coasts in the world. If you look for it there's things to do and most of the people are decent.

Last night a gang of bigotted thugs decided it was a good idea to set fire to the front of our leisure centre with people still inside. Gym, pool, theatre and local cafe meeting spot gone - I never would have said it before (though many would) but today definition of a shithole and some people deserve no more!

I find it quite jarring the disparity across counties in the UK. From town to town you get very different vibes and quality of life. I moved from Lincolnshire to Yorkshire and a while ago when I went from a little wander around between train changes my reaction was something like “get me tf out of here back up north”. The whole city felt run down and moderately unsafe.

It’s just a personal opinion that means very little but I agree that the issue is the lack of affordable third spaces (or third spaces that don’t revolve around alcohol). The high street is dying but besides pubs, everything closes early too. People end up either isolating or loitering.

I think this might be more visible in larger towns where there have been more diverse populations.
What people often perceive to be 'working class' are not these drinkers. These people are not working and are most likely very unwell.

Areas of our town that are working class are far more affluent; homeowners with cars, good jobs, holidays, etc. They may be culturally working class, with their won particular values, but they are not vandalising the streets.

Our more middle class areas are on the periphery of the town. Most travel out to shop or do hobbies, etc. Fewer people visit the actual town centre these days, although used to love doing so.

The town centre residential areas were chosen to house very troubled families and singles from other wards. These belong in neither the WC or MC, and in this town in particular, have seemingly multiplied in the past few years. In the past few years several different centres to house teen addicts have been built close by. Whatever help there is, isn't enough.

I live in a town between a big city and another town. They have all changed a lot in the last few years. Some parts of the city centre feel like no go areas. My town which is mostly full of retired people has beggars and people lying outside the shops. The other town has had lots of homeless people placed in a hotel and I visited a family member there who was vulnerable and the behaviour outside the hotel was shocking. I have seen homeless people shoplifting. Two of the empty banks were found to be cannabis factories. My teenage daughter has to walk past a hostel for the homeless every day and there are drunk/drugged up adult men outside all day waiting for a bed that evening. I understand that homeless people need a hostel but the location is central and my dc is witnessing things I do not want her to see and the whole area is unsafe.

So that’s three places that have all gone visibly downhill in recent times. All three areas were very safe and pleasant before.

Yes! Exactly this here too! I'm in a city in the midlands. Then and parks are filled with eastern European men hanging around in groups. It's intimidating so less kids and women go there. It's become a real shit hole.

Can you tel" us where you live then so people know to avoid it? You may get more people coming on agreeing with you or offering another perspective if they know the area.

Can you tel" us where you live then so people know to avoid it? You may get more people coming on agreeing with you or offering another perspective if they know the area.

Put the gin down, sweetpea. I'll put the kettle on.

Excuse me?

Are you ok? 😂

So weird and patronising. Are you okay???

Dying to know where @FroggletTowers is refering to.

Not something I have seen, so keen to understand more.

I know right? I'm utterly baffled 😂