Is our town a shithole..

[FroggletTowers]

Or is this happening anywhere else?

I have been discussing this with friends, family and colleagues recently so won't name our town for privacy reasons, but it is a regular, large town in England, UK.
Nothing particularly special or awful about it, previously.

Since the pandemic, the entire vibe has changed. Almost unrecognisable.
Yes, we have some heavy shop closures like many towns, but the council kept it looking decent as much as it could. Some nice buildings and nature areas, etc.

What stands out most, apart from the general vandalism and dog shit is the weird accumulation of male groups hanging around boozing in public.

So far they have taken over the local park, river walks and nature reserves. They often cluster beneath bridges or across paths where people like to run, cycle walk dogs or take children, making it less safe and filling these areas with waste. Off road bikes have ruined the nature reserves, so less people visit

Sadly the authorities don't seem to be doing much about it, it is as if these people don't have to abide by laws that the rest of us have to. Some buildings adjacent to these areas have windows put through on a regular basis, even in what you'd call 'nice' areas.
Many of them cluster at river bridges and block the path for others, most are very drunk or out of generally.
It isn't unusual to see a large man passed out across the pathway, blocking anyone getting past. If you had a pram or bike it would be really uncomfortable to have to rouse a large drunk at 2pm in the afternoon. Most are local men, with a growing amount of middle eastern men. The vast majority of them are unstable.

We see less women out cycling, walking or exercising now, and this encompasses both MC and WC areas. These people seem to have just multiplied and spread across the entire borough and have taken over all public space.
We live in a decent area that is now seeming to go downhill.
It isn't unusual to see day drinkers sat alone, surrounded by cans on a quiet residential street. And they won't move to let you past.

It's really depressing.

That's really sad.

My town is a very old one, has loads of historic buildings, and the entire town centre is a conservation area, with the strict planning controls that come with that. Although a lot of new homes have been built, they are "pepper-potted" around, with lots of small developments. And it's in a national park, so very hard to get permission to build beyond the existing town boundaries. I can't think of a single new development beyond those boundaries in the 30+ years I've lived here.

And not only do we have riverside walks, you can walk the whole 42 mile length of it, from the source to the sea.

I feel very privileged, but it comes at a price. You'd be lucky to find a 2-bedroomed house for less than £400k. The cheapest property on Rightmove at the moment is a 1-bed flat at £170k.

Do people honestly believe redeveloping town centre shops into housing will help with this? Doing that will irreversibly shutdown any hope of rebuilding walkable cities/towns and entrench the current issues. We only have to look at the US to see how that will turn out.

I know this will go down like a lead balloon but...

Every time we get time off, the automatic instinct is to escape—book flights, spend big abroad, and get away from our everyday surroundings.

We pour our hard-earned money into other countries' economies while local services struggle, high streets fade, and public spaces decline. What if, instead of always trying to get away, we invested in making the places we live actually worth staying in?

A cultural shift fund or initiative where, instead of a holiday abroad, people contribute part of that money to local services, community projects, green spaces, and cultural activities. What if we built the kind of towns and cities we didn’t feel the need to run from?
We’ve normalised escape, but maybe transforming what’s around us—supporting local businesses, improving public areas, and helping to shape thriving, connected communities, who enjoy where they live.

A pipe dream but one I think about a lot.

What's happened in my town is some shops have closed, the redevelopment is flats, some for supported living for pensioners. On the ground floor new small shop units, coffee shop and a nice seating area. The flats provide customers for the shops so more shoppers around in the town centre and yes bigger shops have gone but opportunity for some specialist shops and local branch of a big supermarket. It seems to be working well.

This pretty much is the set up here - and frankly increasingly like it where DH grew up.

There is some serious money here and rest has some really poor areas with drug problems. We in a rare stable working/middle class enclave - not enough income for better secondary but decent houses and near shops, countryside and easy road commutes. The secondary school does pull this area down -primaries are good - it's decliend decade ago many move here as it was improving rapdily.

Most of the work here and town where DH grew up is in nearby cities - just house prices are too high - so people do waht we did come here and commute. It's a rare area with high fertilty in area with below Uk average as house prices are still okay though rapidly rising.

People tend to go to other centers or out of town places rather than center here - and there is less and less to draw people back into this center and more and more to keep them away.

Do people honestly believe redeveloping town centre shops into housing will help with this?

There a quango doing flats above shops in town up for buying/renting - if you are near station it's very commutable to several large cities - that means there is a bigger young population in center to frequent the remaining shops.

There has also been some private developemnt of fancy block of flats in center with parking - seems to have done okay place seems to have sold/rented all the flats.

Rioters riot in their own town (apart from the professional rioters who go wherever they’re ‘needed’). It never makes much sense to me that people destroy the place they live in.

Tom Hayes MP is proposing an amendment whoch is designed to force planning authorities to consider sufficient play provision. The thinking behind this is that our towns and communities should be designed for all of us to use, not just handed over to developers or left derelict for the groups of men that people on this thread find so off-putting. I think, sadly, it’s clear that retail isn’t going to be the force that revitalizes towns. But there are other ways to being positive constructive social activities into our shared spaces. Please email your MP, ask them to vote for this amendment, and ask them what they are doing towards making our shared town areas pleasant places for all. https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3946/stages/19961/amendments/10023777

https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

@TheignT that is actually good practice- if you build shared ownership or over 55 rental flats reasonably central you keep younger and older people shopping centrally, this in turn attracts better businesses so higher footfall , and it is then self perpetuating, more income so often better kept towns- . Personally I would restrict out of town retail parks but bring in new central car parks that are decent quality, monitored and cheap -offer inducements to the usual retail park suspects to be central - lower business rates etc -

I completely agree with you. I’d also add that we all can, and should, be pushing for better town planning/development on the new estates. So many of the new build estates being thrown up near me are nothing but residential sprawl (with nowhere near enough parking for everyone). It feels like we’re supposed to just accept that developers are greedy and there’s nothing we can do.

Our council has shut most public toilets so visitors are using beaches, woodland, etc as toilets. 🙄

Have we been told why? It’s such an asinine decision. Do they want everyone cooped up in their little boxes as we were told to be during Covid?

Perfectly summed up.

Currently building exactly that kind of redevelopment in my town, right by the river. Will see whether it helps footfall in the town or not as generally these days it’s just dead, even on a Saturday which would often be the busiest day.

@taxguru totally agree with you - we need to look at total redevelopment -and some of it unfortunately needs to be state funded or huge incentives put in place- one thing I would do is put in some good indoor soft play areas- not shitty half hearted ones- and ones with stuff for teens too, climbing walls, skateboard areas, basketball, indoor mini golf - ( maybe split the floors for younger/older) make them big family ‘fun’ centres and maintain them - this would attract families in - who may then go for a quick MaccyDs/Nando’s etc - give people spending cash a proper reason to come into town - footfall perpetuates better business.

To save money. Hah every year the council tax goes up 10% . 30% in three years.

Do you ever feel like you’re a sitting duck? I know I do.

Not a chance would i go out alone in town after 5pm when the shops close. I wouldn't walk along the river path even in the daylight alone. Even one or two streets in the town centre are dodgy during the day.

I think banning drinking alcohol in certain places would be a good idea.
I also disagree with ploughing more money into the pockets of those who don’t work. I think those who don’t work should be made to do community work such as litter picking as part of the reward for getting benefits. You want the tax payer to provide you with a free home whilst you lay about terrorising people in public spaces? Then you do something worthwhile to earn it.
Give them something to occupy their time and when they have to put back into the community they should respect it more.
Same with housing. It’s no coincidence that the majority of scruffy homes- the ones with absolute shit piled up in their front gardens and who seem incapable of ever putting rubbish in a bin, don’t actually pay for their housing.
I don’t think the answer is to keep giving them more, rather make them earn it.

It was meant to be no more tax rises on working people.

The £100bn debt servicing is going to take away from basic stuff like stopping every day crime, litter, just general neglect.

Absolutely

I thought councils were limited to a maximum of 5% increases. I'm sure I remember an announcement a few years ago. I must Google it.

Just checked it is under 5% increase per annum in England, since 2023, before that it was lower.

Councils have the powers to take a much stricter line with ASB. I read the headline in our local town's weekly paper saying so as I stood in a queue to buy a lottery ticket this morning. And actually, our small town is a model of civic rectitude compared to what's being described here.

Plus a huge thumb's up for @Daffodilsarefading last post.

Maybe, but there is zero effort to do anything about it. Something's afoot.