Dog lovers aren’t animal lovers

[Namechanger1993]

I’ve been lurking in various dog related threads recently and it’s become abundantly clear how few dog owners on MN actually love animals. Not all. But lots.

Posters not caring about health tests on parents, or the breeders experience or ability or what happens to the bitch (mother of the pups) after as their desire for expensive mix outweighs their ethics about puppy farming or dogs being born in pain with chronic health issues as a result of bad breeding. Posters admitting their dogs have soiled themselves for a year before they put their dog to sleep. No matter which way you look at it (and believe me, I understand how hard it is to say goodbye), people who love their dogs don’t let them sleep in their shit for a year. Posters not exercising their dog sufficiently or not giving it mental stimulation and then wondering why its badly behaved.

Time and time again I’ve seen posters put their desire for a dog above any morals they might have about animal welfare (including their own dogs). welfare. Honestly, it’s quite shocking how little so many posters care about their dogs, or indeed the dogs use to produce their cute puppy.

We can also live out our years without reproducing and let other species have a crack at not destroying the planet. Personally, if I existed in a vacuum and it was socially acceptable, I'd choose to refuse modern medicine or opt for euthanasia if it meant I would die sooner. Other people have different priorities in life. Me eating meat occasionally doesn't in any way stop you being a vegan does it?

Similarly, I think the official breeding systems for purebred dogs are damaging and fundamentally flawed - even much of the testing done and the restrictions on breeding "pet" dogs - because it allows people to think that issues in the breed are really being addressed, when in fact the main effect is to further restrict the genetic variation in the population which long term will be the destruction of many breeds and actually locks in problems.

I think this is a rather simplistic view of a complex problem and is, in part, likely informed by thinking about dogs like Frenchies (for example).

There are definitely issues with pedigree breeding. But there are also a lot of responsible breeders out there, including myself, who breed selectively to ensure healthy robust puppies that are capable of doing the work their breed was bred to do.

'Genetic variation' can more than easily be done within a breed without resorting to mixing breeds to get, what ultimately, are very expensive mongrels - which, I assume, is what you mean. That mongrels are healthier than pedigrees.

This is very often not the case. Healthy, robust, pedigrees with the right temperament and health tests - that everyone should want their dogs parents and grandparents to have had - are never bred with other breeds to produce these designer doodles or mongrels. There is a reason why so many of these designer doodles do have so many behavioural issues - a combination of poor breeding & poor ownership.

My dogs, for example, are some of the healthiest (in terms of health scores) that I know of for their breed. But I would never breed my girls with a Poodle to produce a designer doodle. Why? Because I breed to make my breed better.
The sorts of dogs that are used to create these 'healthier' designer doodles, are very often not the best examples of their beed. Therefore the myth that 'mongrels' or 'doodles' are healthier is actually wrong, as very often their dam/sire are not the healthiest dogs (hence why they are not being used for pedigree breeding).

The problem is, too many people buy into false narratives online (gosh, where have we seen disinformation before...) and are also so demanding about wanting 'this dog or that dog' or wanting a dog 'with a flat face because it's cute.' Instead of prioritising, healthy, happy dogs from good breeders - which was OP's point.

FFS! Now I'm being accused of tackling people and being nasty to those who are clearly not acting in the best interests of their dogs!

I didn't want to give an example but I think it's important so I will. We are encouraged to call out cruelty and neglect when we see it with other animals, so why not dogs? It doesn't necessarily mean the person is a bad person, often not, often can't face up to things or just getting things wrong.

Anyhow the example:
I saw a dog in the park. Overweight, looked old. It was off lead but was laying down and wouldn't follow its owner who had walked off. The owner went back to the dog, put its lead on and pretty much dragged it. The dog was on its paws but was digging them into the ground, head down, clearly not wanting to walk. When it did walk, you could see there was little movement in the hip joint and it was a real struggle to walk. This was not the first time I had seen this pattern of behaviour and I had been working up to say something. When the owner walked past me and my dog, I found the courage to do so. I didn't tell them to put their dog to sleep or anything remotely like that. I can't remember what I said but I opened a conversation somehow and eventually the owner agreed that a vet visit may be a good idea. We parted on good terms. I saw the owner minus dog some time later. The dog had had scans which revealed it had cancer and severe arthritis. The owner then said it was their partner's dog and the partner had died and they were keeping it going as a link to their partner. Very sad for all concerned. I see the person occasionally and we exchange pleasantries.

If by doing this I was being nasty, interfering or acting out of turn, then so be it.

As I have said, I am always happy for someone to say something to me if they notice something. In fact, someone did. She later told me, when I thanked her for saying what she did, that she had just been making a jokey comment but it got me thinking and I realised I needed to modify my dog's walks. Which I did.

For those of you saying I only get a snapshot of the dog, that is often not true (see above), and what do you think vets get exactly?

Personally I have little time for the sort of people who only want newly fashionable breeds. And in particular, anyone who uses the apparent explosion of tiny little dogs as fashion accessories.

@redboxer321 the difference is that vets are professionals with years of training who have been asked for their opinion 🫣

One day you’ll approach the wrong person and receive a gobful or find yourself on social media for upsetting someone unnecessarily.

Never seeing daylight?
Sheep? Cattle? Free-range pigs and chickens?

Yes you are right. A lot of dog owners don’t treat their dogs as well as they could. A lot of parents don’t treat their children as well as they could.

I’m a little unsure on the shitting themselves comment though - dogs rarely wear nappies or are in such a small space that they’d have to sit in their own shit? Humans on the other hand can be completely incontinent, paralysed and lots of other things but are still kept alive.

Ssh, you’ll ruin her narrative 😉

People don’t think health tests are important. They are. They also think crossbreeds = hybrid vigour. They don’t unless you get multiple breeds over multiple generations.

As a trainer I’d rather see a health tested responsibly bred pedigree than a non tested cross. I’ve had both myself. My cross was a rescue who was a real mix. She lived a long and healthy life. My pedigree is young but we have stacked the odds in our favour with health tested parents and meeting multiple generations.

The poor quality of breeding is making life complicated for all of us. I want an adventure buddy that will be fit and healthy for 12 years plus. I am staggered when I meet people coming into my agility classes with non health tested dogs that are showing issues and the owners are clueless about the long term impact and have no idea when I gently probe breeder info. It’s more common than you’d realise.

Interested to know what you would have done in this situation @tumblingdowntherabbithole Also, all the others who have put the boot in.

Now you’re just making things up.

I haven’t said anything about how I’d react (except upthread where I admitted I’d probably burst into tears) but you only have to look on social media to know that you could easily approach the wrong person and get a gobful (or worse).

I wouldn’t have felt the need to say anything in the situation you describe - lots of old animals are doddery and slow. If I genuinely felt there was abuse or neglect going on then I would try and get a video and speak to the RSPCA.

Funny - for someone who claims to be all about being kind to animals, you certainly don’t seem to give a shit about upsetting humans.

Also, if you hadn’t leapt in to be insulting yet again you’d have seen that I would report abuse or neglect to the relevant authorities - I wouldn’t stick my nose in and confront a total stranger in public, alone - for personal safety reasons as much as anything else.

I can only hope that you don’t confront the wrong person one day - but you don’t seem bothered about hurting people, so 🤷‍♀️

Multiple people have pulled you up on your comments now @redboxer321 and all you’ve done is twist their words and insult them, or assume you know better than them about their own animals.

Feel free to carry on though if you have nothing better to do 🤣

@Newpeep There's a young couple near me (literally about three doors down opposite) that have just gotten what I think must be a labradoodle. It's about 4/5 months old. When I was walking behind them the other day, I had to stop myself from saying it urgently need to go to the vets. It was so clearly effected by very severe dysplasia. I honestly give it a few months before they rehome the dog because they won't be able to afford the life-time of very expensive treatment it will need.

Some people just don't listen and they do not understand how complex these issues are. As you say, a v. well health tested pedigree can be a much safer option that a barely tested alternative.

Sure, the people on MN who have commented think that people shouldn't try to help a suffering animal if they think they can when they see one @tumblingdowntherabbithole I can't help that they think this but they are wrong.
And please, I have not twisted anyone's words or insulted anyone. But I am sorry, I think failing to speak up when you see a dog so very clearly in pain is shameful behaviour. You don't.

My indoor cats don't have a dull life :)

Why did you stop yourself?
Surely the responsible thing to do would have been to say something if you felt safe/able to do so. Might not have had any effect but I would have thought it was worth a try.
This is exactly what I'm talking about!

I couldn't live without bacon

Cats are social too

@redboxer321 not my circus, not my monkeys.

If people want to buy damaged dogs, that is their problem and their expense. A bit of due diligence before buying a dog takes only a few minutes. It's laziness, incompetence and arrogance all rolled into one to buy a dog like that.

If those people cared about dogs, they would never have purchased said dog. Me saying something would have done no good and not changed a thing about that dogs outcome all it would have done is likely risk me getting a tonne of abuse levelled at me. Why would I put myself in that situation?

Sometimes the best thing is to say nothing.

@LandSharksAnonymous
Sometimes saying nothing is the best approach but sorry I can't agree it was in this case. Obviously I wasn't there so I might not have said anything either. We'll never know.
I think it unlikely you would have been subjected to a tonne of abuse if you had tried to open up a conversation and see where it went from there. Can't be sure of course but you put yourself in that situation in order to potentially help the dog.