To think the school system is ridiculous

[Suflan]

This post is talking about the school system in the republic of Ireland, but I know that the school system in the UK has some similiatites, so this is also relevant to people in the UK.

I went to school in Ireland a long time ago, 20 years ago.

My younger cousins are just sitting their school leaving certificate (irish equivalent to a levels) this year and they and their friends have been posting about the exams, after it happened, on social media.

I was just thinking what they learn and do exams on is such a load of shite. Like how is it relevant or necessary in todays world at all.

They posted about their maths paper, all the quadratic equations, prove that point 5,1 is on the line etc etc, extremely complicated equations, and algebra.

Like what do you need that for in life? Its so totally pointless. And maths is mandatory to do, so they need points from maths to get into University.

Like what is the point of learning these things. Surely they should be learning something useful. My cousins have said to me that they think that a lot of what they learn is totally pointless too

AI will code itself!

I'm shocked you are even writing that.

He was diagnosed as having general anxiety disorder. He used the term about himself in the news article. Are you saying that he is wrong in his description of himself? I think he knows himself better than you do.

And yes, Generalised anxiety disorder, is a mental health condition. You can get diagnosed with it, and you can be given medication for it. Don't make light of it. I know some one who has it actually, and they are not able to even go into a shop, as they get overwhelmed with anxiety.

Here is a link to the NHS page saying it

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/generalised-anxiety-disorder-gad/

But again, they dont know what will be relevant to them. If they all follow your idea and decide that algebra is outdated and not needed in the modern world, they are going to be in for a hell of a shock when they discover that it is necessary for hundreds of jobs that they hadn't considered. On this thread, people have given you lots of jobs, careers and situations that use algebra, that you had already ruled out and not realised it's importance. So all these kids you claim to care should be making their own choices would be making UNINFORMED choices.

And that's just one part of one subject.

Algebra develops several aspects of logic which you (hopefully) use all the time in all sorts of different ways.

One particularly relevant skills is the ability to deduce and reason from what you have in front of you and to restrict your deductions to what you have evidence for or to name your assumptions. If you aren’t using this skill in your daily life you’re missing out hugely.

I do think maths is taught poorly in terms of showing people how the skills they are developing apply to life in general. The early emphasis on arithmetic seems to make people think maths is about numbers, when that’s really a tiny part of it (and, IMO, the least interesting).

@MsJJones that's a helpful overview and makes sense. It would help if the subject matter were such that it engaged interest. It truly is hideously dull for so many. Where the subject is relatable I believe you're going to engage. Therefore Greek Gods may for many be dull as dishwater and will not illicit engagement. I recall history at school. I hated it. Now, I love it. Because I choose to learn about fascinating, more exciting subjects that I find intriguing. I hope it has been updated since my day. Miserable and depressing experience learning about Tsar Nicholas 😭.

I don't see anything about this thread criticising teachers. It isn't their fault. It's in hands way above them how this is dictated.

OP makes some valid points and I'm confused by the outrage and personal attacks on her which are absolutely insane. Is this the witching hour approaching? Twilight zone?

I'm so curious to know what OP does in this school.

FYI to answer your question OP I did A level maths and am now a data scientist.

My undergraduate degree was in Religious Studies, which is a subject many people also like to claim is worthless. I found the philosophy and ethics side of RS helped view problems from different angles, and my maths A level helped me train up my brain to tackle and solve problems via logical reasoning.

A lot of my job is being able to identify a problem, understand what caused it, automate a solution for it, then analyse the effect of what I did. I couldn't do what I do without algebra. I also wouldn't be as good at what I do without having learnt skills I picked up from subjects such as poetry, literature and religious studies (i.e. being able to look beyond the surface and practice interpreting things in different ways, being creative etc).

I don't think there's any such thing as a useless subject, just crap ways of teaching. Schools need to better engage students and explain to them how their learning helps them develop different skills and areas of their brain.

I do agree with letting kids specialise in subjects they have a bigger passion for, but core concepts such as algebra should be mandatory for all. It's just a shame that so many parents confer their fear of maths to their children - it does such a disservice to them, especially nowadays where there's more job opportunities available in tech.

Thank you so much!

Yes the personal attacks have been insane.

I don't think I've been called thick, stupid and ignorant anywhere else as much as I have on this thread. Some of the posters on here can be shocking

Can't we debate the pros and cons of the school system, and talk about possibility of reform, like adults.

Oh I know where it comes from - the DSM-V where they debate on what goes into it and which the creators admit there isn't any pathology behind it.

I said it wasn't a medical condition. Oh yeah people suffer that isn't up for debate but the root cause is trauma not pathology so no it isn't a diagnosis it is a response to an experience.

Curiously do you believe in wandering womb and black man's disorder as they are both legit mental health issues?! You can get diagnosed with both of those - so that means they are real right?

The trauma informed model isn't shocking. The biological model is where they tell you you have something without ever testing for it and having no proof it exists.

So what does the NHS say is the underlying biology and what medical test do they do - oh they don't as a test for it doesn't exist. As I said, no proof of the pathology.

So what is the biology behind black man;s disorder and wandering womb? I'd love to hear you explain those!

I currently work as as student welfare officer, in a very large school. As part of my job I talk to the students a lot about their A levels and University choices. I have a relevant degree, and loads of TES qualifications in safeguarding, welfare etc
and I have worked in student services and safeguarding roles in different schools before this

So that link didn't mention the biology behind it, can you explain why the NHS do not explain the biology behind it nor does it explain what tests you have to prove you have it.

I mean testing for meningitis, lumbar puncture and it shows up. Testing for HIV, blood test and it shows up.

Testing for anxiety disorder - no tests needed.

As I said, pathologising normal behaviour. It is normal to get scared and have fears. It is not a disorder to be extremely worried. That is called normal.

Mental health issues exist.

Do you think that depression also doesn't exist?

It really is not. Maths is not trend dependent.

As part of my job I talk to the students a lot about their A levels and University choices. I have a relevant degree, and loads of TES qualifications in safeguarding, welfare etc
and I have worked in student services and safeguarding roles in different schools before this
Yet you think teaching maths is irrelevant.

Opinions like yours are worrying.

I don;t think any labels exist. I do not feel the need to stigma. To label is to stigma. The field is developed purely on stigma. It needs the stigma of labels to survive.

I think that people suffer and feel pain but all of it stems from trauma.

People feel 'depressed' from suffering things like poverty, long term pain, abuse etc. Responding to those situations with low moods and poor self esteem and lack of motivation is normal. It isn't a disorder. One would expect people who do not know where their next meal is coming from to feel bad daily.

Or do you think people who suffer trauma do not react? Do you think 'depression' just happens and trauma causes no response?

There isn't anything wrong with their brain like people will pretend there is. Completely ignoring the issues and utter shite these people are living in. Instead of saying you've suffered such an ordeal they are saying it isn't your living conditions or what you've experienced at all that is an issue it is your brain all along.

Explain why so many got 'depression' in lockdown? Did everyone's brains suddenly go wrong and they had something like a virus making them feel bad or did they feel bad because of what they were experiencing and it was bloody normal to feel that way after being locked away for months on end?

Lockdown proved that depression is not something medically wrong with you it is a normal response to an abnormal situation and not something wrong in your brain.

Can you answer about black man's disorder and wandering womb?

Yes.

Very few of the students in my school are studying maths to A Level.

I believe PP and another good poster on here alluded to the fact it would be better to establish an approach wherein the high proportion who don't have the inclination or skill or natural talent say for maths can be identified sooner before spending so much precious time and brain capacity on this. I do agree that core subjects should be encouraged and not so easily dipped out of so to speak.

Someone mentioned the teachers. So true. The best teachers can engage you on anything. What chance now though with all the struggles. Not paid enough for the responsibility and stress now imo. I'm not a teacher.

OP is reflecting on the experience as it is for very many people in school. It doesn't account for those who find it of use, who are skilled, excel in this and therefore apply it usefully and to the benefit of society.

I personally don't. Absolutely crap at maths. How I wish I could have specialised much more in other areas with opportunities to learn about politics and economics in school, not college.

I think I could possibly recall the Jewish garments and festival traditions if I had to. I really don't want to. Weeks / months of time wasted on that, for me. ( Rubbish to me and a huge proportion of people).

I think the point is that for a huge proportion, this is their reality. I studied English to a high level and even I can see why parts of the curriculum are pretty painful for those without skill, interest or inclination here.

Yes I did maths to A level. I use basic algebra now and then for normal every day things like recipes or working out what we can buy within a budget. But I liked it math mainly because it was about problem solving and logic, and you learn these skills in a variety of ways. Plus it’s a building block to learning other things,

I don’t think kids can all decide for themselves what the school curriculum should look like because they don’t know everything they might need to know. It would be a shame if a 14yo decided they didn’t like algegra and didn’t realise until it was too late that they did need it. You could use your logic for any subject - why bother with Shakespeare if I’m not going to be an actor, why should I learn about atoms or WWII or anything because I know at 14 exactly what I’m going to do with my life and it’s going to go exactly to plan.

This is sad as maths is the most facilitating subject for university.

I have any issue with Shakespeare too.

It's good to study English texts to develop our English language abilities and comprehension, but why does every single school study Shakespeare?

Surely there should be more variety of writers that are studied.

I did the Leaving certificate in Ireland about 20 years ago. We studied King Lear, by Shakespeare.

My cousin did the Leaving certificate this year, 2025.
She studied....King Lear by Shakespeare.

The curriculum hadn't changed in twenty years.

@Suflan , I have any issue with Shakespeare too.
What does that mean?

I literally wrote a post explaining exactly what I meant?

The issue is - why does every single school study Shakespeare, why is there not nore variety of writers.

And also why has the English curriculum not evolved. I studied King Lear the Shakespesre play, 20 years ago for English, my cousin also studied King Lear the play, for English, this year in 2025

So you hated school, and because you learned nothing from what you were taught, its all pointless?

OK

Some accountants do use algebra. It's also useful for excel working out what formulae and functions to use and nesting them all together.

Engineers use algebra plus geometry and trigonometry.

Algebraic logic is also used in coding/computing

A good grade at A level maths, or Leaving Cert maths at HL (higher level), is a good indicator that the person is very capable with data, logic and numeric problem-solving skills which is important when recruiting for finance, software development, data, information analytics, systems etc..

Sigh. Someone didnt read anything that I wrote.

“And yet everyone i know say that they hated school and that it was like being in prison”

but then

“I talk to a lot of young people, in my job.
A lot of them tell me that they hate school.”
(My emphasis)

‘Eveyone’ is not the same as ‘a lot’ OP.

or

“Algebra is so completely irrelevant in this day and age.”

but then

“No I never once said it's not relevant AT ALL.“

I mean, this could have been an interesting thread but you do need to make your points more coherently OP.

You’ve contradicted yourself multiple times now. It’s very frustrating to read.