Is there any evidence that home education/ taking your child out of school improves outcomes for SEN children?

[GnomeDavid]

I do have real life experience of this and I have a lot of empathy for parents of SEN children who struggle to attend school or experience EBSA.
But I also see a lot of parents pull their children out of school (in my opinion) prematurely. Some are able to go back to school, but I imagine many don’t.
I wonder if there is any evidence that these children end up happier, well adjusted and less impacted by the co-morbidities of poor mental health, depression, anxiety and predisposition to eating disorders.
I assumed that you would be switching one less than ideal situation for a different one. Yet there is no option to explore both paths. Certainly I see a lot of unhappy SEN children in mainstream schools, but I also know some deeply unhappy children who are out of school, and the impact on their parents is also huge in terms of losing jobs, independence, social life, relationships, relationships with their other children.
I suppose I made a choice that my daughter would have to stay in school, even though she doesn’t thrive, as this seemed to have a lesser impact on the family as a whole. But I think about whether I made the right choice every day, and tomorrow is never guaranteed.
I would love to do a longitudal study of this but I imagine the environmental factors would make it almost impossible to measure reliably.

It has always been a thing, but why do you assume the outcomes were good? My asd mil has had a lifetime of poor mental health and eating disorders.

@GardendiarySorry that wasn’t my point, no I don’t at all feel that it was good. I just wonder why now these children are burning out much more, and much earlier. I don’t think anyone in my primary school left due to MH. My bestie is autistic and we went to primary school together, she said it was brilliant. There was so much more freedom in terms of uniform, curriculum, learning style. It was also a failing school in a council estate and we had so much in terms of resources which just aren’t there now. Cooking every week, a trip to the woods every week. But enough of the rose tinted glasses.
Secondary was awful, but especially so for ND kids.
I see a lot of people now who tell me they hated school.

I’ve seen friends battle and battle to get their kids into a specialist provision, which has then worked brilliantly. They didn’t have the option of home ed as housing costs meant both parents needed to be at work. And those kids are now thriving.

Conversely I know kids who never started school as the parents assumed they had SEN and wouldn’t cope. I think that was partly they wanted an excuse to home ed (control over all of the children’s lives), partly they’d got sucked into social media constantly reiterating the difficulties for SEN children and mainstream schools. Because the people who were managing fine, whose school was making adjustments or who had moved school successfully weren’t posting about it. The people who were posting were the ones who were really struggling and desperate for advice and support. Those people were completely non-plussed by my child who is ND but thriving in school because the structure, certainty and clear expectations of behaviour and achievement really help.

Schools need to radically change their provision for autistic / ND children. It wouldn’t take much to do this. It’s not always about funding.

I sympathise with children and parents that are forced into a system that is just not designed to help ND. But removing children from school is removing them from future society.

I don't think that they have a choice when the child is suffering from severe anxiety and the school cannot provide support.

I think many do, yes. I used to home e’d due to autism - when they went back into school they were tested and found to be way ahead of their peers academically - the return to school was an unmitigated disaster.

I think it's so individual in each case that it's almost impossible to measure.

One of the children in DDs SEN class has been removed and is homeschooled. He's not learning any more than he did, he's still kicking off regularly, but he isn't suicidal anymore.

So not successful on all the parameters you mentioned, but thankfully successful on the one that had his parents absolutely terrified and unable to leave him unsupervised even for a minute.

How?

How is it removing them from a future? Have you home educated?

@ConfusedAnxiousMumvery good points, but when you say ‘they had no choice to home ed’ I have been in a position where it no longer becomes a choice. The school refuse to physically manhandle children into school, so if your child is 8 plus, maybe 6 if they are big and you are small, if your child will not leave the house or will not get out the car (or refuses to walk in my case) then you are screwed.
You will have to call in sick again, and after a while you lose your job. The only option for you as a homeowner, if this continues, is for you to sell your home and rent using the equity in your home until you can claim UC. I know as I had to look into it! And all the time no one is giving you any answers or helping.
It’s not a choice many can make but there is no alternative if your child won’t access school. I cringe when I look back on the things I told my daughter, such as that we were going to be homeless and it would be her fault. But I was desperate.

I think it's going to be impossible to get the kind of longitudinal, large case study evidence you want because the reasons why children can't engage with school and can't attend, and the reasons why parents pull them out, are so widely varied.

There are some children for whom school in a traditional sense is going to be impossible and traumatic, even with accommodations. There will be other children who could cope but only with extended time off regularly to "recharge", which some schools will make impossible for parents due to pressures on attendance. But they'll also be some children - even ND children, as a parent of one - who could benefit from school, but have learnt that particular tactics enable them not to attend (I don't think those children are happy btw, and they are still in need of support, but withdrawal from traditional school might not be the best option). There will also be a group of parents deeply traumatized by their own school experiences who can't be clear sighted on their children's schooling. They'll be a tiny minority of parents who just don't care.

Picking all of these apart requires regular consulting with professionals with psychological and educational expertise which its almost impossible to access.

I took my daughter out, probably 6 months too late to be honest. She was also in the grey area of not being able to manage mainstream and not being “bad” enough for a specialist school.

I forced her into school because I thought it was the right thing to do, but mainstream schools are not set up for children with SEN. You might be lucky and find one that is, but it’s rare. In my daughter’s class of 30, 6 had additional needs. It would be impossible to meet the needs of all of those children and educate the rest of the class too. The resources and funding just is not there and teachers are stretched to the limit as it is.

My daughter was self harming. She couldn’t sleep, she wasn’t eating. She was masking so hard all day that she was exhausted, she had no friends and she wasn’t learning or thriving in education, she was (barely) surviving.

I am lucky that I was able to home educate her, I know not everyone can. We follow the national curriculum at home, and at the moment is seems like she’d like to follow a career working with animals so we are doing some online courses to facilitate that also.

I’m not sure what the future holds, but she is happy and safe at home and working towards GCSE’s. Will she take as many as her peers in school? Probably not, but she will take the core subjects plus a language. It’s more than we could have hoped for a few years ago.

The education system needs reform I think.

I took my DD out of state school the class sizes and noise was too much for her. I’m a lone parent so the only choice I had was private school. I found a small one, very nurturing 10 in a class two classes per year. She thrived there. I could not have home schooled her anyway, PDA, AuDHD. I can only be her mum, not her teacher. She has responded really well to online tuition though, I’ve used several tutors to support her GCSE revision. That works well.

The education system needs reform and the National Curriculum needs to be slimmed down massively. My daughter was school refusing in Reception at her "Outstanding" school, I pulled her out and put her in the "Good" local school half way through the year and she has started to thrive - it's not perfect but the whole environment on students and teachers is much lower pressure and they value her as an individual and she has so far not refused to go in. Year one will bring new challenges I'm sure.

I took my DS out after 5 months. My DS has ASD & ADHD. His mental health nosedived, he wasn’t coping, it made him sad. He was bullied both verbally and physically. I removed him the first time he mentioned killing himself.
Primary school was fine, secondary was a whole different story. An adult wouldn’t be expected to ‘cope’ and struggle in a job they would be told to leave and find a new job. On paper my DS is not severe enough for a SEN school.
My child’s mental health is worth so much more than a grade.
He attends lots of social activities through Scouts and various youth clubs.
I am lucky enough to WFH 3 days a week, the two days I am required in the office his dad takes over and teaches life skills, how to change a plug, how to read a bus timetable, cooking etc.
I did have to cut my working hours, I do feel my work progression has suffered because of this, I will be stuck in the same department on the same hours for at least the next five years.
I am also considering home schooling my younger child once they finish primary, more due to the state of the secondary schools in my area.

Another parent here who was forced to remove our youngest autistic DD from year8 secondary as it was a nightmare. The school was one of the good ones who tried hard with lots of adjustments but ultimately if she wanted to learn maths, English and science at higher gcse level she had to sit in a class of 30+ peers with all the noise, perfume smells, poor behaviour & sensory overwhelming environment that it brings. By the time we removed her she was unable to do basic self care, get dressed, eat she was so shut down. It’s took months to enable her to be in a place to learn effectively again, but I’m expecting her to take her first 2 GCSEs a year early as academically she’s bright. Socially she does a couple of activities outside the house & has long video calls gaming with a couple of close friends she also has a small business selling something she has completely taught herself using online tools to facilitate communication. She will definitely have the skills at 18 to earn money when if we had left her in “school” she would no doubt have ended up attempting suicide and not have got any qualifications. Education is for life, school is not. However too facilitate this I took a 20% pay cut & hours to work from home & DH does wfh on one of the days too cover her too, we spent 1000s on tutor support until securing EOTAS after the LA dragged us through horrendous send tribubal to get it and we are “lucky” ones apparently as now have a small amount of funding to enable her to take GCSEs but considerably less funding than the cost of a 1:1 TA in school or a specialist school which they would not fund!

My DS self combusted in secondary. He had just about coped with primary, but secondary was a step to far.

I have no regrets about taking him out. He wasn't learning, he was constantly getting into trouble, didn't understand the homework as he was so far behind.

I have no regrets whatsoever.

I did put him back into a 14-16 environment but the same issues occurred.

Now at 22 he has no qualifications, but has been working for a couple of years, has found his niche, has a very good work ethic, gets good feedback and has had a small promotion and pay rise.

Since leaving the mainstream education system he has been diagnosed with ASD and ADHD.

I concentrated on trying to fill in the gaps and strengthening basic maths, reading and writing skills. I had no intention of tutoring him through GCSEs. Night school can do that if he wants to at a later date. Removing him was all about damage limitation.

This is a very good point
noticed this in lockdown
my ASD demand avoidant DS who just about manages in mainstream, would not home school very well as I was ‘just his mum’

My son has always been a school refuser it started off with him talking about headache, tummy ache, ear ache,eye ache you name it he had it to avoid going to school.
We managed to get him all through primary school with the help of the attendance officer trying all different treat options for him to come to school.
Our real problems started when he started secondary school he went for the first 3 weeks then it started once again tried all of the I’m ill things but we said school will send you home if your ill
I took him to school every day as he would not go by himself
Then he would get what I called meltdowns and hot referred to Camhs who diagnosed severe anxiety
Still made him go to school then came the assaults when trying to get him to school I was tripped up, slapped, pushed into a bush, ran away screamed at cried at begging me to please not to take him in it was awful
At aged 14 I removed him from school as it wasn’t working thought I’d take the consequences as the education department for our area said they refused to let him be home schooled.
Within a few weeks his anxiety calmed down the house was calmer still had issues just not like they were.
My son was diagnosed with PDA autism at 18 and ADHD
I honestly believe if my son hadn’t been taken out of school when we did I would not have him now either by seriously hurting me or by doing something to himself
sorry it’s long
i also think school is good my older 2 have been all through school and 2 are still in school.

Eh? How is it removing them from future society?

Most home ed children I know are out and about more than school based kids.

In my own case, we did one at least one "out the house" excursion every week. We live within commuting distance of London, so we did museums, Buckingham Palace, Houses of Parliament, BBC behind the scenes tour, art galleries. Locally we did similar and also matinées at the theatre.

He still did the same clubs and after school activities as he did previously so still met up socially with his peers. And because it wasn't 6 hours a day in a difficulty environment he managed these relationships far better.

He works now and gets good feedback about his work ethic. Still struggles with inter-personal relations, but it is what it is.

But he was certainly was not removed from society. Ridiculous comment.

It would be a really good topic for a qualitative study. You would get very nuanced answers to the question though I'd think, but possibly some good policy advice and useful things to think about when making the decision.

I think it depends. And how you weigh up happiness with also getting an education and planning for the future.

I know someone families who home educate really well.

Others not so much.

I know one family who have taken their 2 youngest out of school. One with possible SEN and one with a physical health condition she recovered quickly from.

Their Mum constantly says how happy they are. And they are because they get up when they want, do an hour of some worksheets in the morning and spend the rest of the day shopping, on outings to Costa or on their tablets.

They're both very behind in their education and their Mum seems to have no plans of how to address this or what their future might be.

The 9 year old does want to go to back to school for secondary but will be so behind I doubt she'll catch up.

The 7 year old doesn't want to go to school ever and Mum doesn't seem to want her to but has no idea how she'll pass any exams, get a job or be a functioning member of society.

Mum not wanting to get a job is also playing a huge part in her wanting the DC to be home-ed.

I’m not sure this is directly answering your question, but I’d like to offer our experience. I have 4 kids who were all / will be HE until 6th form, mostly as it felt too early to send the eldest to school aged 4, then we became part of a thriving HE community and it became a way of life.

My 16yo has just been diagnosed as autistic with ADHD. His bf was diagnosed the same last year. They’ve known each other since they were toddlers and have both been HE till now, they have achieved GCSEs and will be off to college in September. All the reading I am doing atm about receiving a diagnosis in mid teens talks about the likely MH issues due to the pressures of school and masking. I honestly don’t recognise this at all in these kids. They have a wide circle of friends, wide ranging interests and are members of several clubs. So I would argue for the child that there is no such thing as withdrawing them from school too early. Obviously the effect on family finances is a different consideration…

"But I also see a lot of parents pull their children out of school (in my opinion) prematurely. ".

I have seen this happen almost entirely because the education authority threatens the parents with legal action when their child misses a lot of school. The parents are scared and don't have the money or knowledge to battle against it. It gets the child off the education authorities books but creates a long term problem.

What long term problems does it create?

But I also see a lot of parents pull their children out of school (in my opinion) prematurely.

why do you think so? what do you know professionally about triggers for EBSA. What do you know about the families whom you judge to pull children out too soon?

And why does it bother you so much when parents make decisions for the wellbeing of their children. Children, with whom I presume you have nothing to do with?