in putting my foot down about car seats on nursery trip?

[2point4kids]

I dont know if I am being PFBish here!
I only recently insisted that DS's nursery change their locks as he could open the front door and I dont want to get a bad reputation there as being a mad over protective mother!!

Basically DS is 2.7 years. He goes to nursery 3 afternoons a week. They have a trip coming up in a couple of weeks to a farm park. Its a full day trip. I am more than happy for DS to go and have paid already.

However, chatting to his key worker yesterday I asked in passing if I should bring in DS's car seat that day or if they will have them already on the coach.
She said that she thinks the coach only has lap belts, so to bring his seat in case, but they probably wont be able to use it and have I got a booster seat I could bring instead?

DS is only 2, surely he is too little for a booster seat? I dont have one anyway.
I said this to her and she said that they should have a couple of spares (just the sit on bits, no backs) but if they run out the kids will all just sit on the seats with the lap belts on. Thats what they did last year apparently and no one minded/everything was fine.

I thought that children had to be in a proper full car seat till the age of 4 and even after that they had to have a booster seat with a back on. The nursery manager has said though that booster seats are fine from age 3 and if they are tall/a good weight then 2 year olds can go on them too.

I've asked her to phone the coach company to ask if they have lap belts or proper belts.
If they only have lap belts I am thinking of asking for my money back and not letting DS go.

It seems a shame as he would enjoy the day out so much, plus I get the feeling they will think I am madly over protective if I say he cant go.
Its a 20 min coach trip each way.

Am I being unreasonable?

My husband runs an old coach (over 40yrs old) as a hobby...don't ask!
We have lapbelts on the first 4 seats and we have used a full carseat on it with no problems.
We had to improvise the top bit by using a piece of wire to hold up the top of the seat to the back of the coach seat.
But it just meant that our then 2yr old could have a nap in her carseat and stopped her for going walkabout whilst the coach was moving.
Our day trips can last all day as our dear old Bessie can't go very fast!

hi I am a newbie but this caught my eye!

Am usually a laid back somewhat neglectful mum but school outings are my neurotic achilles heel and I always worry. I just volunteer to go along. If your routine allows why not go too, they usually grateful for a few parent volunteers.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on the situation!) the exception to the booster seat/car seat rule is public transport, including buses, coaches and taxi's (which I am horrified to say a child can sit in without a seat belt on at all and it's legal!! ), the majority of the time it is perfectly safe (for buses and coaches) as they tend to go a lot slower than normal traffic and so are less inclined to be involved in accidents or to stop suddenly.

But surely if you are supplying the car seat for her they are inclined to use it as there should be enough space between the seats for it to be fitted, and it is the duty of the nursery to care for your child in your absence so I'd be inclined to state that you would be more comfortable knowing that she is in the car seat, (and, let's face it, it wont really take a lot more to strap her into the car seat than it would to put the lap belt across, it's just the initial installing of the car seat, which, given two minutes, you could probably do yourself as you probably know how to install it correctly).
It wouldn't hurt to ask if it's possible.

As far as I know, (and I work in the coach industry) it is a legal requirement to wear seatbelts in a coach where they are fitted.

As for your situation, I would leave your car seat, even with lap belts they can be attached to a coach seat, and your dd will be restrained in the case of an accident.

I bought a spare car seat that works with lap belts for my dd, so she can go on coaches, but she travels regularly, so was worth the expense.

YANBU. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks when it comes to your childs safety.

I refused to let my daughter wear a lap belt when she went on a trip at the age of three and a half. They're damned dangerous things. I actually unstrapped her after the playgroup leader did the strap up.

The other thing to bear in mind is that collisions in coaches are very different to those you'd experience in a car. If you are shunted from behind by a car while you are in a coach you're unlikely to really feel it, never mind needing to be restrained by a lap belt. A half ton car hitting an 8-10 tonne coach doesn't make much of an impact.

I thought lapbelts were dangerous if you were hit from behind because of the way you are flung forwards, which is very unlikely in a coach.

My sister is a coach driver and has been rear shunted and side swiped lots of times (weirdly, none of them have been her fault either - how can you not see a 54 seater coach ) with no injuries to her or her passengers. She always says she'd rather be in a coach than a car.

The one major accident her company had involved the coach skidding on ice and toppling onto its side. The only child who was injured was the one not wearing the lapbelt. All the rest were unhurt.

Hope that puts your mind at rest a bit more.

this is interesting, i dont think you are being unreasonable at all, i wouldnt be happy and i am suprised at your nurseries attitude tbh.

the playgroup my ds3 goes to is having a trip after half term, they have arranged a coach WITH THREE POINT SEAT BELTS, AND HAVE TOLD PARENT TO SUPPLY CAR SEAT, NO CAR SEAT AND THEIR CHILD DOES NOT GO.

i am perfectly happy with this rule, and the playgroup have said that the coach company manger insists upon it as well.

My dd 3.5 has been going on playgroup/ mursery outing by coach since she was 2. Nursery trips are lap belts coaches and all 30 of them sit with the belts on, no larking about and thats not 1-1 spervision. I suppose it depends how well youve taught your child to behave in public, and how to listen to what the teachers tell them

I think I would be happy for them to go tbh, and once they get to school this will be the norm for school trips anyway.

The reason I'm ok with no car seat in a coach/bus/train is that statistically there are such few cases where anyone really comes to any harm, despite the fact that poorer Mums make up one of the main categories of bus users. It must be because the impact is less. Ds and I were on a bus that was driven into from behind and tbh we hardly felt it (though ds was thrilled when he found out he'd been in a car crash ).

Same thing happened to dd's CM in her car- and she sustained whiplash injuries. Big difference in impact.

Also there are fewer incidents involving coaches/buses: people see them coming. And coach drivers IME tend to be very experienced.

I have travelled a LOT with dc's on public transport (buses, coaches, trains, boats, planes) and I always feel much safer than when going in somebody's car.

Though there may not be 1:1 supervision on a school trip, there will be supervision; the staff will keep an eye on the children. And it is likely that the children won't play up anywhere near as much as they would with their parents. Most children wouldn't dare to fiddle with their seatbelts when it's Teacher that tells them not to.

We have exactly the same issue. ds is 3.5, and too short for a booster seat with full seatbelt, as the belt cuts across his neck rather than being across his sternum which is the safe position. The coaches here don't usually have belts at all, so when ds's class goes on trips I drive him there. Don't care if it seems precious - I have seen too many spanish coach drivers smoking a fag and yelling into their mobile phones to want it any other way.

However, I believe in Britain the rules for drivers are a little more stringent.

I don't think a proper coach would have anything other than lapbelts. A mini bus might have shoulder ones though. I was worried about this last year when we had to make a long coach journey with dd who was only just 2. The thing that made me get my head round it was when somebody explained to me how coaches are not like cars. The forces involved in any impact are completely different (so, as I understand it, the risks of a lap belt on a child are reduced because they are not likely to be flung forward with as much force.)

The greatest risks in a coach crash are of being flung out of the coach if it rolls and then crushed. Which is why it is important to have the lap belt on even with a child. I don't know how much of this is factually proven as it was just how it was explained to me, but it made sense somehow and made me a bit more comfortable about the whole thing.

I wouldn't let my son travel in a lap only belt. He has been in a boostr with aback and proper seat belt since Mother's Day and is now 2.11.

Lap belts are dangerous. I remember reading something about them causing intrnal injuries when in a crash.

I don't think you ever can be unreasonable when it comes to your child's safety.

For what its worth in my experience all the children i have ever taken on trips have worn the lap belts no problem, the only ones we had trouble with were the ones which were accompanied by their own parents as a helper. Children generally will follow the rules much better for the nursery.