SEN funding isn't a bottomless money pit

[Sogfree]

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy my job working in a SEN school. I care deeply for the children and families I work with.

I've had 4 different conversations this week with parents where they expect an excessive amount of additional resource to be allocated to their child. They expect this as, in their opinion, it's needed. I disagree with 3 of the 4 parents that this is needed.

All 4 of the parents are going to fight the decisions county have made. Their decision to fight will mean county spend more money arguing the challenge.

Services are already broken with the increase in need. Recruitment fails, as there aren't enough speech therapists/OTs/CAMHS practitioners etc to employ.

One parent demanding extra from one of these services means another child gets less.

One parent demanding a child goes to school X at £100k per year when a place at school Y at £30k is going to meet their needs means the child who needs the place at school X doesn't get it, and extra £70k per year is wasted. And the parent keeps their child out of school for 12-18 months whilst they fight for the place at school X.

That's the reality.

Every parent wants the world for their child. I understand that. But taxpayers can't afford to give every child the world.

AIBU - parents know their child best and we should fund what the parents say the child needs

YANBU - there's only so much money to go around and parents need to accept hard decisions have to be made without challenging them

My DS has some SEN - he’s not badly affected aside from needing medication, so he’s not really costing the state much. He is in mainstream and gets no funded extra support (he doesn’t need it, he’s doing really well now). But as DH and I are in a group with other SEN parents and my God some of those children need more support. It’s shocking how hard those parents are having to fight for even crumbs from the NHS or the local authority. It’s crazy to expect any parent to shrug and say ‘Well, my child needs X but I’m happy to settle for Y.’

And this is the attitude that then follows these children from school and into adulthood and the workplace. Told to be a certain way or to do something (attend mainstream or work) and then resented . It’s actually disgusting that society is heading this way and not valuing and supporting those with SEN and/or disability.

So parents can ask for anything they want in the world and it should happen just like magic?

But that is my point, if one child gets huge amounts, others get much less. Budgets are finite and we have to allocate equitably based on need and potential for impact.

If I'm skilled enough to treat a child them I'm skilled enough to determine who will and will not benefit.

It's also harmful for the parents to be told 'if you get enough physio and you push hard enough your child will acheive X' and when they don't acheive X the parent blames themselves or blames the therapist, when the reality is it was never going to happen, and it would have been much better for the child if their time and energy was focused on something realistic for them.

Unfortunately, the current system is really hard for parents so it’s inevitable that those who know how to will advocate strongly for their child.

The recent reports from the Institute of Fiscal Studies on Sure Start & Youth Clubs are interesting re this issue - both programmes had funding cut to save money but the reports conclude that both saved money in the long term.

My son has huge physio provision in his EHCP but to be fair, I didn't have to fight for it. No one actually knows what his future holds, he might walk in the future and he might not but if there's even a small chance, the majority of parents are going to fight for their child if they have to.

Like I said, I didn't have to but I absolutely would have if it wasn't agreed.

sorry this is exactly what I am happy for my taxes to be spent on - disabled children and their families who through no fault of their own need extra support from the community. We need more money in this area

A physio will assess the child and advise. I can’t just walk into school or the gp or hospital and demand certain treatments that aren’t clinically indicated neither can any other SEN parents I know (and really sadly it’s very common for SEN parents to get accused of FII when they ask for too much), so I think it’s very misleading to state that parents can force medical interventions that are harmful as no registered therapist would do this . It feels like a lot of statements to fit an agenda on this thread

If we want Children to grow into the most productive members of society they can be then we need to invest in their education.

We can’t deny vast swaths of children a suitable education and then complain when those children grow into adult who require large amounts of state support.

Of course some children will still need a lot of support into adulthood but every child deserves the best education for them to set them up for their adult life.

Exactly .

How to let the world know that you are not a SEN parent….nothing happens like magic. In fact nothing much happens at all most of the time. SEN parents do not just click their fingers and get what they want. You have to go through punishing legal processes, gather evidence, complete forms, attend meetings and most of the time end up with nothing to show for it.

It should be funded. Providing an appropriate educational experience would save money in the long run as people will grow up not needing extra support to unpick the damage done from an inappropriate educational experience. I agree with you that the money isn’t there but it should be. The government chose to spend money elsewhere.

The trouble is, more children are being diagnosed, so this problem is just going to continue to get worse.
Of course parents want the best for their child. The needs of other children are irrelevant to them.
I just can’t see how we can continue to fund the massive amounts of SEN children being diagnosed.
I don’t know what the answer is.

Imagine if the amount we’re spending on illegal immigrants was spent on improving schools in general/sen provisions. That would be amazing!

I’m going to make myself unpopular for saying this, but my own observation is that money and resource is thrown at some children but seemingly withheld from others - once they met a threshold they seem to get more and more without question.

Often those with “higher needs” have little to no prospect of progressing and what they really need is safe supervision to provide respite, not specialist teachers. A child I know spends almost zero time in the classroom and is instead wandering the halls with 2:1 TA’s the same can be achieved at their weekend respite for a fraction of the cost. Another child could use their place and benefit from the therapeutic and educational setting provided for them. I think we should look more critically at what is realistic for each child and what level of resource is really needed to be allocated. Not all children can be “educated”

All and any of these recent threads about disabled people taking too much from the state are enraging to me. Do the OPs not realise that, even if they are healthy now with healthy children, they’re only one misfortune away from being disabled themselves? From the car crash that renders them paralysed or brain damaged, from the sepsis which causes them to lose their hands or feet, from the degenerative illness that strikes in their 20s or 30s or 40s? We should fund disability support as a priority, firstly because that’s the civilised and humane thing to do, and secondly because there but for the grace of god. The ‘I’m all right Jack’ mentality is disgusting and incomprehensible.

Well said.

There is a lot of ignorance on this thread and people who appear to have little understanding of the system.

We had a tribunal for DS3s first independent special school. The tribunal found the LA EP's evidence to be unreliable for DS3. I'd say the professionals commissioned/employed by the LA have a huge agenda to carry out and write misleading assessment reports. And the LA EP was so arrogant in the hearing itself. The LA also had a barrister representing them whereas we just had our preferred school headteacher attending.

The whole thing was draining and isolating. It was the support from other parents (online) that kept me going.

My child has SEN due to being born very prematurely. I know others in a similar situation. If society carries on down this road how long before NICU intervention and funding is questioned if a high proportion of premature babies go on to have SEN ? How far will people go in order to ‘save the country money’. It started with disabled adults , working and PIP we’ve quickly moved onto criticising SEN funding for children ….

There is a balance to be struck. My son has been in a specialist provision based in a mainstream school and he has had so much excellent support. We also get some money we used years ago to get therapies but now we use to develop interests with him because left to his on devices he would only be on tech all the time and long term that would make him very mentally unwell. But there are other children who need more and then others who need more again. Our situation is far from plain sailing but some other parents who be looking at our situation very favourably compared to their own so I am very aware of how lucky we are because some people can be utterly on their knees I’ve seen it plenty.

Then there are the parents with ludicrous demands too. I’ve seen them too @Sogfree they do exist. Often though they have issues too because conditions can run in families so they can be very black and white and not able to see the bigger picture or they could be completely burnt out or just plain old entitlement.

As it is for many.

But equally there are many placed in mainstream for whom it is not the best option, where the school has explained to the LA that they cannot meet this child's need, but forced to take anyway. And then the placement fails and the child is out of school for ages waiting for a specialist place to come available.

Yep.

I had a perfectly healthy child who didn't need a EHCP 15 months ago.

Then he almost died and everything changed for him, for us, forever.

I didn't think it would happen to my child, no one does.

As a parent I agree.

It’s not necessarily about savings but an acknowledgment that there is only so much in the pot.

I do agree though that the situation is only going to get worse as the advances in medicine continue. It’s odd that we celebrate the latter but can’t acknowledge the former being an inevitable consequence.

The government funding is so disconnected - they try to cut budgets in one area, apparently completely oblivious to the fact it then costs them more in another.

Imagine a world in which there was sufficient provision for SEN children that was easily accessed at need. No need to attend tribunals costing £££, no outsourcing of placements to private providers at 10 times the cost, and critically not having the huge mental impact on parents of having to fight an adversarial system to meet their child's needs.